This article is one in a series, created in this order:
Hello! Much like the TiNe and FiNe vultology threads, I've had to depend on the video contributions of our generous submitters and members here to make this thread possible - as this type is quite a bit more rare than previously thought and certain developments don't appear in the public eye. So I thank you all for that sincerely. But if any members wish to withdraw their videos, let me know in PM and I'll be happy to oblige. Much like the NiFe thread, a "purge" of sorts was necessary for the same reasons as the NiFe, and is found at the bottom of this thread. Quite a few new insights were found in the creation of this profile, which I'm excited to share with you all. Enjoy!
1) The annotations (l---, ll--, lll-, llll, l--l, l-l-, l-ll, ll-l) signify function consciousness, with "l" being fully conscious and "-" being subconscious or unconscious.
This represents the baseline vultology for the NiTe and is very comparable to the NiFe l---. The gaze is highly hypnotic & trance-like, as it remains fixed forward and zoned-out. As they talk, no significant participation occurs between the eyes and the mouth. That is to say, the eyes are doing one thing while the mouth is doing another, and the two dimensions are not in very explicit collaboration.
The body appears to be falling endlessly towards a resting state, and losing animation. These samples display the "stumpy" characteristic of Pi-leads, which has been a very useful clarification in vultology lately.
Noah was previously typed as NiFe in the pre-development-levels period due to some warm swelling signal mixing, but when comparing him to the NiFe l--- samples, the qualitative difference is quiet clear. NiTe l--- differs from NiFe l--- in that they have a more robotic voice and sentinel-like posture. When they lean-back, their mouth moves in a monotone fashion without involving the rest of their muscles and not giving coordinated warmth. Even when they speak about very empathetic topics (which they do), their composure remains cold. Here's a set of GIFs showing this difference of composure in action.
^ Look for the personable eyebrows, and subtle embedding of warmth
^ Look for that sentinel posture (upright and frozen) + Fi asymmetrical mouth
^ Look for that monotone rhythm + removed emotionality
The difference here is partly qualitative, but quite distinct. It's this quality of high-Te users that makes them appear machine-like often times, and is why Te politicians can have an "uncanny" feeling to them. Once again this is unrelated to their level of sincerity or care, it's just part of having Fi's unaware and uncoordinated emotional expression. 🙂
Psychologically, we don't have a large enough sample base to draw many conclusions. One thing of note is that NiTe appear to be less esoteric than their NiFe counterparts. They do express certain blunt Te habits, however. In his own words, Noah speaks about being a kind person but can appear like an asshole/narcissist sometimes (Te's "Jerk with a heart of gold" syndrome). Quin discusses a story in which he took bureaucratic action to get an employer fired who deserved it. And Fabiano is a professional chess player. All of these display Te's bluntness and process-orientation.
And here we see the female counterparts.
In this group we find NiTe Justine, NiTe Pucokie and NiTe Arya (who self-typed as INTJ/INFJ/INTJ respectively) and we have NiTe Aubrey Plaza in her most neutral state.
We know that our member Arya has a strong esoteric bent, as does Thana -- who is in a post below. She is a hard worker and has strong Te efficiency. Justine discusses her irritation with people who "don't make sense" and Pucokie similarly describes what she calls the "INFJ door slam" but which is actually just her unseelie Fi writing someone off in a cold fashion. Ironically, a directive Fe user would likely *not* haughtily dismiss someone from their life, but might Fe shame them and take a more combative approach. These again display elements of Te's bluntness, its grievances with inefficiencies and Fi's haughtiness.
Here we see the NiTe ll-- development, where Te is conscious. The main changes that happen in this development is that the head no longer remains frozen immovably in a forward facing trance, but participates in forward head nods and head shakes, all while never losing its eye-centricity. We can see this in GIFs like those below:
^ P Eye-Centricity > Je Head Nod
^ P Eye-Centricity > Je Head Shake
^ P Eye-Centricity > Je Head Nod
Now my main task here is to differentiate this from the TeNi ll-- type. The TeNi thread hasn't been uploaded yet but we do have some examples of this type. @sekundaer actually got this one right recently, so I'll be using L. Ron Hubbard as an example:
TeNi ll-- Unseelie
^ J Face-Centric > Pi Eye-Drifting
Here we see what a Pi/Ni zone-out looks like when it's subordinate to a J-lead body posture.
Notice how his torso & shoulders remain in one fixed position, then his head moves as a separate object. The head looks left to right in discrete motions while not dragging the shoulders/torso with them. This is the J2-Face Centric signal (link). The whole body is operating as a unit, with modular parts that are working together while the eyes are not the dominating factor.
For a P-lead's body posture, the eyes lead the head which causes the torso to glide along with it -- and when this happens in an Ni-lead, it has an affect similar to the movement of a cobra (to use a metaphor). Here's a GIF to show what I mean:
^ Ni Cobra movements
The vertebrae of the cobra glide in response to the direction of the eyes, causing this rather smooth and inertial swaying. Now, if we look again at L. Ron Hubbard's GIF and compare it to the girls above, we can see the difference. It may take looking back and forth between them a few times to see it, but it becomes clear how the Ni-leads have this more cobra-esque head motion, lacking the angularity of Hubbard. This cobra-esque motion will also be important for the rest of this thread.
Going back to the NiTe samples, we see a strong convergence in psychology. Ingrid Newkirk is critical of animal cruelties and seeks to expand their rights, which is a common political aspiration for Te/Fi. I used to think this would imply seelie, but her energy itself is unseelie. Unseelie Fi's can be very nobly minded and caring about life, even though their presentation is aggressive.
Along the same lines we see NiTe "The White Rose" talking about issues of feminism (she's an anti-feminist just like TeSi Rebecca Watson). This is once again a heavily Te/Fi topic, especially among women with Te/Fi. Then we see Zinnia Jones (an M2F transgender) advocating LGBTQ+ rights. All of these topics are dominated by Te/Fi users in the database, which gives further statistical support to the known behavioral tenants of Te/Fi vultology.
Lastly, we have NiTe Teal Swan who is an actual spiritual guru-- along with NiTe Adi Da Samraj in the following section. And although this puts NiTe's at a lower representation than NiFe's as far as guru-demographics go, Ni as a primary or auxiliary function is, from a statistical sense, multiple times more likely to lead to esoteric leadership behavior than the average in the population.
If, for example, there's typically 1 esoteric guru per 200 people, then there's 1 esoteric Ni guru per every 10 Ni lead types. These are not exact numbers, but are demonstrable to the point that not every NiTe needs to be a guru for the association of Ni with a certain brand of esotericism to be firmly established.
Now here we see Adi Da Samraj, who is another guru that speaks about the disassembly of the ego and any impermanent concepts of separateness. He is very similar to Ni-lead Eli-Jaxon Bear, NiTe Ekhart Tolle and many other Ni-leads in this respect. Samraj could at times appear NiTe l--- in development (for example between 0:05-0:40) but he is actually ll-- in development. This becomes apparent his entire expressive range is taken into consideration later in the video. The enormous pauses between his sentences are partly an effect of his meditative practice, thus I count it as variables that needs to be accounted for. And with those things accounted for, Te's consciousness becomes apparent in times when he does "come out", such as in GIFs like:
^ Je gesticulation (subordinate to P)
Notice how there's a lack of crispness/angularity in the motions, neither does the whole body operate as a single unit whenever he engages his Je gesticulations. This lets us know Ni is above Te in hierarchy.
Edit: Video removed at member request with a new/better one coming soon. 🙂
Here we see what an NiTe l-l- development looks like. Notice how the energetics are far more restricted even than those of the l--- type. For the l--- types, the subconscious auxiliary Je still plays enough of a role to append some minor head nods and shakes to their vultology. But in the double-introverted type, that's not the case. The combined presence of Pi+Ji works in opposition to any proactive energy.
^ Pi Stumpiness/Inertial Energy + Pi Fixed Gaze
We can see the Ji in use in GIFs such as:
^ Ji Meticulous Hands + Ji Eyes Disengage Down
For the majority of the video we see Pi's "Stumpiness" and a very unmovable forward facing posture. But atop of that is a meticulous energy that comes out for periods of time, and which is also further constraining the body and voice. The voice in this case is very soft/slow due to the twofold energetic withdrawal.
Now we come across the polarized (l--l) NiTe. In this development we see a similar level of fixed forward focus as in the l--- samples, but with an added level of loose body swaying and some toggling, as we can see in GIFs such as:
But this development has to be differentiated from the SeFi l--l types.
They are very similar, and the difference isn't so much in the level of animation present, but how it's executed.
When reviewing the samples, what I found was that the SeFi's and NiTe's differ on these main points:
* Conductor Forwardness
* "Cobra-esque" Head Posture
Pe (Reviser Doubt)
* Bobbling Head
* Excitable Movements
Even when an Ni-lead has conscious Se, the head does not bobble and this is because Ni-leads have the cobra-esque posture which is directly opposed to the bobbling. The Pe head bobbling is a kind of eye-centricity that lacks conductor Forwardness, so the bobbling happens in many directions. It doesn't have a honed-in forward vector. To demonstrate this, here are some GIFs:
Se-lead l--l Trent Reznor
SeFi Gigi Hadid
Pe-leads have a kind of endless freedom as to where they'll look -- even though as Se/Ni users the head and eyes go together.
Oppositely, Ni-leads have far less randomness regarding where they're facing, and their eyes do not "explore the surroundings" as much as they remain fixed forward.
^ Pe Bubbling Momentum (youtube.com/watch?v=mep1aUW3Opk)
And here we see Mango (previously typed NiTe) displaying this bobbling of the head and bubbling momentum -- these are gestures that go beyond the scope of even an NiTe with conscious Se. If we see the NiTe's above, their swaying never comes at the compromise of their Ni-lead composure. What gave rise to these misreadings before was an over-reliance on function-specific signals such as Ni Hypnotic Eyes being an indicator of high-Ni and not just Ni by itself in any order. As it's turned out, Se-leads can have very hypnotic eyes but the core element that determines hierarchy is always an examination of energetics in a dynamic way.
Rosemary Gotto and Aubrey Plaza are essentially the same person ;p. They are both deadpan humor users, who leverage their natural Ni death stare to give satirical commentary on things they find mildly amusing. But their playfulness is not the playfulness of a child jumping into a puddle of water (i.e. free-flow exploration) but the playfulness of Ni letting its Se loose for a little while. We can notice that both Rosemary and Aubrey remain "in control" of their spontaneity at all times -- as contradictory as that sounds. This is actually an analogous signal to the Si "silly-serious", but I hadn't thought about Ni having a parallel before. The key comical feature here is that we see "maturity" displaying a moment of "immaturity".
Lindsey Shepard is in this category as well, especially in this younger interview. Shepard was drafted into politics by the circumstances of her life (leading her to develop Je) but her original state was very apolitical (as polarized P-leads tend to be). She's got a similar sense of humor to Aubrey which can be sensed in other videos of her.
Example topics discussed by them:
XKCD Hat Guy
- Simplifying Einstein's Relativity
- 4th Dimension explained by a high-school student
- the paradox of social idealism
- there is no unemployment crisis
- there has to be a cure for cancer
- facing the consequences of society's separation
- Type 1 Civilization (Kardashev Scale)
- Michio Kaku on The Future of Civilization
- Scientific Controversy and The Search for Truth
- New World Order
- 9/11 Conspiracy
- Secret Information and as such it must be
These two samples are also quiet identical. Both are very cerebral males with highly abstract physics theories, social theories and criticisms about government -- aided by a conspiratorial bent. In the case of XKCD Hat Guy, society appears to be organized in such a way as to coerce people into consumerism mindset. In the case of Jeremy Rys (author of alienscientist.com) he believes in all sorts of esoteric ideas about quantum physics and thinks there's knowledge the government is aiming to repress - including alien intelligence.
Notice that both have Flat Affect.
These two are good examples of what happens when Ni is plagued by a level of neuroticism, leading it to become somewhat paranoid. And the combination of male + high-Te makes it so that these paranoias are channeled through a very heady and mechanical mind. They both really are fascinating case studies of Ni.
Now I am not entirely sure why these two have l--l developments, given their portfolio of topics. But it seems like the flat affect may have something to do with it. Also I think polarized P-leads naturally have a kind of anarchist spirit to them, and go "rogue" often times. The way these two conduct themselves is in line with that pattern. We see the same sort of thing with NiFe l--l Albert Camus and SiTe l--l Bill Hicks. So my guess would be that polarized P-leads with flat affect have existentialist tendencies but they also have an undertone of anarchism and so even though they're Conductor types they don't really play by Je rules.
Indeed, although these two guys are political in some sense, they're not politically active the way the NiTe ll-- types are. That appears to be the key difference in development. At root they're actually against politics as an institution, and that's why they talk badly of it.
new video coming soon
And now we come to Lindsey Shepard after being exposed to the storm of the political world. This is the NiTe ll-l, or the double-extroverted NiTe. This represents the fathest an NiTe can go into extroversion. It is curious to note how Lindsey's vultology itself has changed in the time between the Wilfrid Laurier controversy. Now we see her display a combination of Je+Pe energy. We can see this in GIFs such as:
^ P Eye-Centric + Je head Shakes + Je Head Nods (with a little bit of Pe momentum swaying left/right)
^ Je Gesticulations/Projecting Hands + Pe Bubbling Momentum
Here in this last GIF especially we can see what appears to be an incredible level of animation. If taken in isolation such moments would appear to suggest that Lindsey is TeNi. But we know this isn't the case because her body overall does not have face-centricity (J), and instead she has that conductor forwardness combined with Pi's fixed gaze. To demonstrate this, here are a few more GIFs of her compared to actual TeNi women:
NiTe ll-l Lindsey Shepard
TeNi Ramani Durvasula
(from video youtube.com/watch?v=TxrSPlL5s7c)
At this point these two are just an embarrassing mistake. Their vultology is identical to that of other SeFi's and there would be zero justification not to put them in the same class. Again there was an over-focus on the cunning look of the eyes as a definitive signal for Ni-lead-ness, which was a mistake. The energetics are very obviously Pe-lead for both -- as is their psychology. One is an infamous comedian and music producer, and the other is a professional video gamer; all of which are Pe dominated fields.
But just to hammer the point home, here are the Pe-lead signals we can see:
^ Notice the aimless head bobblings and restless Pe energy.
^ This is a "loss of control" moment like I mentioned above. It's not only that there's Pe momentum, it's that the momentum flings the body in a way where the cobra-esque directionality (Conductor) is lost, and instead there's a being-taken-by-the-wind quality to them. This is Pe>Pi.
Others who I'll upload videos for later:
SeFi Kat Dennings
SeFi Elvis Presley
SeFi Asa Butterfield
SeFi Neymar Jr
SeFi Gigi Hadid
(There are also a few others like Martin Shkreli who will be addressed when the TeNi thread comes out, as I believe he might be TeNi after all.)
^ Thread ≅ Manna from heaven
Auburn - very glad to see Hubbard included as a TeNi example. And Teal Swan I had actually planned to ask if was NiTe, but didnt do it, as I didnt know how to make moving GIFs, but I did save some screen shots while looking at an interview with her some time ago (pretty far out stuff ! ), so here they are. I dont know anything about her, besides what I heard while looking for her signals, but it seem rather different from NiFe kind of spirituality like you mention in your book. It seems more "mental" which makes sense (Te), she could actually seem a bit like a scientologist.
(please correct any errors that you see)
^ Fi - asymetrical smile
^Te- taut square/split cheeks
^Te - split cheeks/taut square
^ Fi - snarling
^Te - Split cheeks
^ Je- exacting hands
^ Ni- far away zone out
Ni - far away zone out
Ni- intens scowl
^ And this delicate pinching is outside of gamma, but I just include since I saw it (Rondo, I dont know how long time it lasted and how relaxed her wrist was... your criteria for Ti-pinching)
@sekundaer - Those all appear spot on!
As for making GIFs... I use https://giphy.com/create/gifmaker
1 - Add youtube video URL
2 - Select start time and duration of GIF & Generate it
3 - Grab the URL by clicking here:
And then here:
Downside: This website will not make GIFs for videos over 15 minutes long.
There are ways around this though, if there's a GIF you really covet. : )
Thank you for talking about the "INFJ door slam"!It always confused me as to how Fe could cut ties and feelings so suddenly without even discussing or addressing the topic
Coming back to this thread because I've noticed that you didn't include the Cole and Dylan Sprouse on the NiTe I---I Unseelie males, even though in the Identical Twins study they're listed as such. Were they mistyped back then or is there any other reason? Genuinely curious
Looking over Cole/Dylan again, they're both definitely SeFi. They're still the same type & shade - but they fall under the SeFi reorganization. And that actually totally makes sense to me. Looking back it was a silly idea to class this shade as NiTe.
I haven't yet added the twin samples to any of the database efforts so far. But I hope to get around to it. 🙂
On the old forum you had Trent Reznor listed as NiTe, and that was what finally pushed me over the edge and made me consider that I could be higher Ni. People kept insisting I was Beta NF, but I always typed as FiSe, and even considered Beta ST breifly. When I saw Trent was Ni lead on this site - he and I looked scary identical in a pair of videos, which did not surprise me since I knew there were major similarities in our psychology (though not identical). Now you have typed him as likely SeTi, less likely SeFi. This makes more sense to me. And I am loving the consistency with which musicians & songwriters appear as Se leads, vs. philosophers and spiritual workers appearing as Ni leads.
On a different note, is Quin unseelie or seelie? His profile says Seelie but the video here says Unseelie. Just curious 🙂