SeTi: The Definitive Vultology

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  • Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive
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    This article requires a working understanding of the vultology code.

     

    SeTi
    VALEER

    Alright!! So this thread was crazy fun to make and also very informative as it helps updated a few key features of vultology. Most notably by uncovering that there was a severe underestimation of how much “Ni” can be present in the eyes of Se-leads. This was first elaborated in the NiFe thread (with the purging of mistyped SeTi’s) but here we get to see just how that influence plays out. It is now looking like it’s better to identify the “Ni/Se” oscillation as a whole, and use Energetics signals to determine if Ni or Se is primary, rather than using Ni signals > Se signals as the defining metric. This will probably become proper practice for all 4 oscillation pairs going forward, and while I do still believe certain signals are “Ni” signals and others are “Se” signals, function priority cannot be established without cross-checking function signals with energetics (Pe/Pi) too.

    Ok here goes!


    Notes:

    1) The annotations (l—, ll–, lll-, llll, l–l, l-l-, l-ll, ll-l) signify function consciousness, with “l” being fully conscious and “-” being subconscious or unconscious.
    2) The adaptive/directive divide is even more challenging with these than the FeNi’s! Since this is the “first pass” of actually defining this spectrum vultologically, it may refine in the future. But I hope to provide a helpful first approximation.

    • This topic was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    SeTi l— Adaptive Male

    Spoiler:

    Compilation (watch full screen)

    This is the baseline SeTi l— vultology. As you’ll notice, it’s not as hyped as once thought! What threw me off was that I was expecting SeTi l— to be “amped” but that actually doesn’t appear to be the case. It seems overall SeTi’s are more “chill” than anything, and it’s only the double extroverted ones that are amped but the same is true for all double extroverts. Here we see clearly just how far off the SeTi baseline was, as two of the above samples (Kendji and Koops) who were under NiFe, were actually standarddevelopment SeTi! Ugh. Fail. Fail. Fail. They are quite different from the NiFe samples, as we’ve compared now.

    Updates to Vultology:

    Nonchalance: One of the things that was mistaken for Ni energy before is their nonchalance. It turns out SeTi’s have this “meh” factor to them that is not at all like Ne’s perky amusement. This perkiness was being expected to be generally “Pe” but it seems like it’s slightly more Ne than Se. And in general (as we saw with the NeFi thread) there was an over-estimation of how “hyped” the energy for all Pe types is. It’s more like… subtly jittery.
    Restless swaying: We see this subtle jitteriness in a kind of restlessness. Notice how the SeTi’s above have this pendulum thing going on, where their whole torso and head swing around like a reed in the wind. This is clear P-lead posture, but before this would have been classified as Pi. Recalibrating the signals, this is Pe, and Pi is more like a “stump” or sack of potatoes. Not rigid, but not self-animating. Pi doesn’t initiate movement, it slows it down.

    Here are some examples of Pe restless swaying vs Pi inertia:

    Pe Swaying


    ^ There’s a subtle pendulum effect, even just a few inches one way and back.


    ^ The spine is loose, the body restlessly sways around with understated momentum.

    Pi Inertia


    ^ Pi Inertia


    ^ Je Gesticulation + Pi Inertia

    Analysis

    Woogler above shows the “sack of potatoes” signal. This is a more extreme example but you can see how subtle Pi’s non-movements really are. Pi is actually “still” (I) just like Ji, so we read it’s effects by how it slows down movement. It is identified in the negative. That is to say, by what we don’t see happen and by the manner in which movement ceases. In this case, Woogler is executing a tiny Je head shake that is inertially slowed to a grind by Pi.

    I use Carl Jung (Je-conscious) as a less obvious example to provide wider context. Notice how his limbs fall back down slowly into a stump. The way his hand sits on his knee in one beat and stays there. The same happens with the recent FeNi ll– samples like Oprah and Bruce Lee in how the gesticulations become elongated and come to a “sit” or a “deflation” rather densely/heavily but not immediately or rigidly.

    This is what Pi actually is. And this will be a key refinement to our understanding of Pe vs Pi moving forward. Again Pi was being extended to include that inertial swaying we see in the SeTi’s above, but that’s incorrect. Pi doesn’t do that. That’s Pe.

    SeTi l— Adaptive Female

    Spoiler:

    Compilation (watch full screen)

    Once again we see a former NiFe mistype in Beyonce, who is seen here as a standard development SeTi. The others remained the same, but she was clearly in the wrong category due to Ni signals being given priority over energetic ones. The same vultological notes above apply here as well, as we can see Beyonce’s “reed in the wind” body posture in GIFs like this:

    Psychology

    – Music
    – Rap / Hip Hop
    – Gymnastics

    Like the males here, there’s a strong focus on music across these samples, with the exception of Gabby who engages in a different domain of sensory stimuli. More notes to come.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    SeTi ll– Adaptive Male

    Spoiler:

    Compilation (watch full screen)

    Here we see what SeTi looks like with conscious Ji.
    While not losing any of the aforementioned restless swaying movements and energy, he dips occasionally into rigid halts. There’s a clear ongoing flow to Jetplane (0:05), an ease of animation and eye-centricity (0:12), P casual hands (0:16) a lack of Ti-lead’s fatigue/struggle/exerted-pushes and yet there’s clear moments of Ti momentum halting and neutralization such as at 0:21 and 0:35.


    ^ Ti Neutralization + Ji Meticulous Fingers + Ji Rigidity


    ^ Ti Neutralization + Ji Meticulous Fingers + Pe Toggling
    Yet these moments will appear as clear slowdowns of an otherwise more casual, chill, and restless energy and the constant bodily “hummmm” of Pe.

    Now I’m cheating a bit here with the compilation video, as Emeka (left) *does* also have Ti conscious but belongs to another development further below. But given the low volume of this sample I found it helpful to use both of these Ti-conscious SeTi’s to set a more proper context for what this vultology looks like.

    Psychology

    Jetplane48 actually self-identifies as ESTP 7w8, and is very much a “bro” (a Discord slang term for SeTi’s ;) ) as we can see in the rest of his channel videos. Yet his focus is heavily on self-identity, the subjective experience, and the like. At the same time it’s a bit more of a side-hobby to him than a central agenda; he is not necessarily building a Ti Theory of Mind from scratch, but he does dabble with them. He considers himself restless, easily bored, flaky, and he knows he’s SeTi even though lots of people online think he’s TiSe because he’s into these socially introverted subjects. I actually really appreciate how SeTi’s can just level with themselves so well and frequently and say “yea, that’s me” rather than hold onto a fantasy. There’s a realism and frankness to their perspective as they acknowledge themselves by what they evidence and do. We see this further down with EJArendee and Zombies who are two other properly self-typed SeTi youtubers despite often being told they’re ISTP or INTJ because they don’t fit the social ESTP label.

    And this is again because in MBTI the profiles only describes the l— developments at best, but don’t cover how a type is like in all its other manifestations. It actually seems SeTi’s are fairly well represented in typology and have a hidden philosophical edge to them that often comes out to play.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    SeTi l-l- Adaptive Male

    Spoiler:

    Compilation (watch full screen)

    Now, these are the SeTi that are most amped and they’re not the standard development as once thought, but instead are l-l-. And even here it’s not always too exaggerated. What we see is a P-lead loose body, with casual hands that animate often but never quite “hit” their points with complete resolve. The typical “reed in the wind” Pe posture gets lifted to more of a spunky excitation. But my main order of business is to differentiate this development from the FeNi with developed Se. Lets compare to FeNi.

    SeTi l-l-


    ^ Pe Momentum > Je Gesticulations


    ^ Pe Momentum > Je Gesticulations


    ^ Pe Momentum > Je Gesticulations

    FeNi l-l-


    ^ Je Gesticulations > Pe Momentum


    ^ Je Gesticulations > Pe Momentum
    ^ Going back and forth between these two sets of signals a few times really helps cement the difference. As we’ve seen with other Pe-vs-Je differentiation, when Pe is primary there’s a sort of horizontal proclivity to their movements that complements their head’s drifting action, while Je-leads have a more vertical orientation. Notice how Will Smith’s momentum ultimately “snaps” into a head nod midway through the GIF, and how Shemar Moore presents something forward with his hands, landing it on the audience. In contrast the SeTi’s have less of a “point” or presentation to their Je movements… as their motions are more impressionistic.

    When Pe > Je, gesticulations have a more “flailing” quality to them, and the hands make more circular and haphazard movements. These samples lack the spinal rigidity and “resolution” that can still be sensed even in Se-heavy FeNi’s like Shemar Moore and Will Smith. And it’s here that we can see which function is truly primary.

    SeTi l-l- Directive Male / The Social Critic

    Spoiler:

    Compilation (watch full screen)

    The same off-handed, flailing arms quality of Je can be seen in these examples… combined with a more Directive energy. Since the vultology is essentially the same, I’ll focus more on the psychology:

    Psychology

    – Criticism of Culture/Society
    – Analysis of People
    – Snark and cynicism

    These SeTi l-l- have a very “devil may care” persona to them, characterized by a nonchalance that isn’t really “dismissive’ in the Te way, but charged with a kind of flaming Fe condemnation. Yet this flame is not backed by any given political ideology or agenda; it is more of a general frustration at society at large. At the millions of little things people do that annoy them. And thus, often there is an anger at “people in general”, but not so much against any aspect of human nature or morality.

    EJArendee famously made a series of videos bashing each type for their shortcomings and stupidities. And “Zombie Ruins Everything” made a similar series called “Brutally Honest” in which he likewise bashes on each type for their irritating qualities and self-delusions. It’s my experience that directive SeTi’s like to bring people off their high horse and say “you’re no better than the rest of us.” Again this points to their realism, but it also points to years of accumulated anger from the Se “persistence effect.” Their micro-irritations pick up from everyone’s little inconveniences, and they become a condensed source for the many subtleties (Se) that define human character (Fe) flaws.

    Marshall Mathers is cut from this same cloth, as evidenced by his biting lyrics and criticism of not just individual people but trends and attitudes. Again, all while not being explicitly political. Like all SeTi’s, it’s all more a sort of “commentary on life” than a crusade or a paradigm to be championed. It’s as though they give their two cents and then give the mic back and shrug.

    But of course, I am speaking only of the most directive side of this spectrum. At more moderate levels directive SeTi’s can be jesters, ball breakers and hilarious pranksters too.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    SeTi l–l Directive Male

    Spoiler:

    Compilation (watch full screen)

    Now if you thought the NiFe purge was bad, take a look at these SeTi samples who actually do have Ni development.
    There’s no way this shade would have been properly identified before, considering Kenji/Bieber/Effron/etc ended up being standard l— and didn’t even have Ni conscious.

    But given what we established in the l— post, we can now begin to properly categorize these individuals. What we see is and even heavier degree of Ni hypnotic eyes, zone-outs and drifts, all the while still retaining that “reed in the wind” body posture. Here are a few GIFs showing this effect:

    SeTi l–l


    ^ Ni Zone-out + Pe Body Sway


    ^ Pe Momentum/Sway + Ni Zone-out


    ^ Ni zone-out + Pe Body Sway

    What we see is a heavily polarized P-lead vultology. There is a combination of Pe subtle swaying and Pi inertia at play, with little visibility of any J functionality. But lets compare this to actual NiFe l— to set them apart from their baseline:

    NiFe l—


    ^ Ni Hypnotic Eyes + Pi Inertia + Ni Unblinking Eyes (+ subtle Je)


    ^ Ni Hypnotic Eyes + Pi Inertia (+ subtle Je)


    ^ Ni Hypnotic Eyes + Pi Inertia (+ subtle Je)

    The best way I can explain this difference is to say that, since Ni (as Pi) is a non-active process, and is identified by absence of movement, then it’s effects in the standard NiFe are best measured by it’s effect on the auxiliary function –which is the most adjacent extroverted animator. That is to say, for NiFe’s we see a heavy Pi effect with Pi slowing down Je. We don’t see Pi slowing down Pe, as appears with the SeTi samples above.

    With Dave Chappelle, Juice WRLD and Kendrick Lamar …what we see is a Pe-lead body being slowed down by Pi inertia. But with NiFe’s what we see is a Pi-lead body with subtle aux-Je head pushes and forward juts that are super curbed down. And this essentially marks the difference between reviser and conductor energy. Chappelle/Juice/Lamar still lack conductor energy due to the open-ended, swaying and fluid nature of their body. The NiFe’s by comparison have a certainty in themselves, a lack of extraneous movements, and a lack of buoyancy. I hope that makes sense.

    SeTi l–l Adaptive Male

    Spoiler:

    All the same things described above are true for these samples as well. It’s hard to see adaptive-vs-directive energy in P-polarized samples due to the lack of J function development, but I think a reasonable contrast can be drawn between these and those above. There is an agreeableness and passivity involved here which is lacking in those above. But again, adaptive/directive is less the focus of this thread as of now, until more samples eventually make for a more clear differentiation.

    SeTi l–l Directive Female

    Spoiler:

    Compilation (watch full screen)

    And here we have our very own CrimsonFox! …who self-identified as Ni-lead before, with good reason. She’s compared against the above samples due to the rarity of female samples of this shade. I haven’t yet gotten the best chance to flesh out the psychology of this shade, but I do hope Crimson and others can help in the creation of a profile for how SeTi’s experience Ni. I’m sure there’s a lot to learn here.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    SeTi lll- Adaptive Male

    Spoiler:

    Here we see what an SeTi looks like with both J functions conscious. Now, remembering from previous threads, whenever a person is “JJ” like this P(JJ) development…. there is a technical glitching effect that happens, where Fe+Ti lock together and create stuttering and exerted pushes. We see this same exact dynamic in Emeka, as evidenced in GIFs like these:


    ^ Ti Meticulous Fingers + Fe Gesticulations + Pe Momentum


    ^ Fe Gesticulations + Ti Meticulous Fingers + Pe Momentum/Swaying
    At different points in the video he modulates certain functions more. So we have some long periods of Ti momentum halting (0:14-0:20), and some periods of continual Fe articulation (1:08-1:25) but the GIFs above manage to capture all 3 functions in the same few seconds, interplaying with each other.

    Now I’ve still gotta get a bio from him! (Emeka if you’re reading this ;p) to really flesh out this development. I’m pretty sure Ni isn’t conscious, considering the above l–l vultology, but it’s possible you may be starting to bring it into consciousness now. Generally though, the traits of having Ni conscious are moreso the traits of “Pi” than any interest in the subject matter of Ni itself. I think that’s the best way I’ve come to describe it.

    Many individuals can have very powerful and rich interests in the subject matter of a function, but the energetic talents of Ji/Pe/Pi/Je will be absent. In the case of Ni, a proper sense of caution, temperance, long term planning and vision/etc.. may be absent even if there’s an interest in the esoteric, symbolic and metaphysical. I’m not sure if that describes your experience but let me know your thoughts!

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    ll-l

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    SeTi l-ll Directive Male

    Spoiler:

    Now we’ve seen Tyrese Gibson in the l–l developments above when he was younger. When he gets older he develops Fe as well, making him l-ll. This presents me with the obligation to differentiate him from FeNi because admittedly it’s exceedingly subtle.

    Whenever we have a l-ll development, it’s one of the hardest to explain or learn and I don’t know of any other typology model that even acknowledges it. After all, if the lower two functions are conscious, how is the type not it’s own opposite?

    But as I’ve done in the other threads I’d like to again present a case for why this is a legitimate development, using Tyrese as a study. So one of the ways to triangulate and really know a 3-function-conscious person’s type is to pay attention to modulation. And that can only be done by looking at the person at separate times and places… then coming to understand all the videos from the vantage point of a single type. Lets look at Tyrese through his progression of consciousness:

    SeTi l–l Tyrese Gibson

    Younger videos are always more indicative of core type, and in general going back to younger videos reveals people’s types before they developed additional functions. And here we see Tyrese clearly being a polarized P-lead at the start of his career. Very chill, reed-in-the-wind style body rhythm, a twin shade of Quavo. Very zoned out eyes but also very restless body energy. As we discussed in the l— post, this is not inertia but a form of Pe swaying. This itself rules out FeNi, but lets keep going anyway.

    SeTi l-l- Tyrese Gibson

    As he gets older we see Tyrese here with a substantial level of Fe. But as we can see in the first 30 seconds or so his P-lead body posture is still quite clearly there, however then after 0:30 he brings his Je into the mix. At moments he may seem FeNi when he’s channeling Fe, but we have to place those moments in the proper context. Are those Fe accentuations coming from a rigid spine and vertical poise? Or are they layered atop of a restless Se vultology?

    Remember that the FeNi’s use of Fe is often not restless but understated (Re: Carl Sagan). Determining Fe-lead vs Se-lead is not about “how much” Fe is present per minute, but whether it’s being channeled from a kingly and collected poise or from a more haphazard double-extroverted amplitude. In Tyrese’s case, it’s the latter.

    SeTi l-ll Tyrese Gibson

    And lastly we see this vultology above, which blends the other two styles together into one. He zones out for extended periods of time, but then goes into Fe gestures. He keeps a Pe loose body rhythm, yet also has some fair bit of Je+Pi conductor energy. He sits at the very edge of what could still qualify as SeTi vultology, but it’s still certainly within the SeTi architecture.

    Here are just a few GIFs that show his SeTi vultology, despite the additions provided by Ni and Fe:


    ^ P-lead eye-centric + Pe Momentum + Ni inertia (subtle) [looks l— here]


    ^ Ni zone-out [looks l–l here]


    ^ Pe Momentum > Je Gesticulations [looks l-l- here]
    As we can see, all three functions (Se+Fe+Ni) have periods of visibility and dominance in his vultology at different times during the video. They may not always come together in the same seconds, but their presence can be identified separately.

    Psychology

    Psychologically we also see precisely what we would expect from an SeTi + Ni/Fe.
    Tyrese is oddly spiritual, and has a typical Beta NF mystical bent. But his spirituality is not just confined to topics of interests… extending instead into a sort of worldview (Pi) through which to live. Tyrese is a pseudo-FeNi guru. Much like Oprah and other FeNi’s, he has karmic proclivities and also believes in agency which can be seen in his book:


    But in an interview he funnily says that sitting down and writing books is not really “his thing”, and that this book reads like a conversation because it was essentially recorded on-the-fly as he talked with people. Here we see just one example of Pe > Je/Ji, where there’s less care and delicacy towards the refinement of articulation, language/rhetoric, and more of a flow-based approach and a moving-onward. The book title itself, while seeming Je-centric, implies (“getting out of your own way”) attaining liberty/freedom to do whatever one wants (Pe) which is actually prioritizing Pe. This is in contrast to other books by FeNi’s such as:

    The books of actual FeNi’s tend to be focused more along the Fe/Ti axis, the void/flame dilemma, politics, “rightness” (ethics), and organizing a society properly around human nature and needs. In contrast, Tyrese presents a philosophy by which one can maximize whatever they wanna do in life, with less actual concern for politics or societal structures. This echoes back to the l-l- developments above who likewise veer away from ideology. Tyrse is essentially a l-l- development with an Ni “worldview” atop of it, which articulates some of those SeTi truths of how to navigate life… in an unbounded temporal sense.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    llll

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    The “Heartthrobs” Shade Mistypings

    SeTi l— Justin Bieber

    Spoiler:

    The elephant in the room for a long time, formerly labeled NiFe. I think this really makes so much more sense. If Bieber was gonna be NiFe then so would Lil Baby, Quavo, Kendji, and all sorts of others who simply don’t demonstrate the psychology we see in the actual NiFe samples. I’m very happy that we managed to catch this discrepancy. The Beta types feel much cleaner now. Here is a list of the reassigned cluster:

    SeTi l— Zac Effron

    Spoiler:

    Another previous mistyped NiFe. Essentially the whole heartthrob shade was SeTi’s. Pretty straightforward now; has the same vultology as Justin and Kendji Girac.

    SeTi l— Nicholas Hoult

    SeTi l— Ben Affleck

    SeTi l— Leonardo DiCaprio

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
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