Se/Ne/Pe & Clumsiness?

[Animal]

@bera
In the Ni description, he talks about how Se works to create Ni's state of mind. And some of the other descriptions also go into this though I can't think of them offhand. I felt Pe were the weakest ones, though I agree that Auburn is overall the best there is out there.
There is no Ni without Se, and no Se without Ni. I'm not talking about polarized types. I'm talking about the actual axis that makes the fundamental basis of the type.

[Aletheia]

In western, Euro/American culture, it’s generally assumed that everyone fits into one of two gender categories: male or female. Indeed, the vast majority of people do fit into those categories biologically, and at a cultural level, most people relate to these categories enough to accept them as part of their identities. Yet the problem is that western culture has constructed this male-female thing as an absolute binary into which everyone can be unambiguous categorized.

It's so funny you used the gender stereotypes example @hrafn. When I read Animal's OP my first thought was that this resistance toward quantification in CT is quite like the postmodern gender paradigm Jordan Peterson harps on so much XD
We need not go too far either way..
There are indeed tangible differences between the genders, just as there are between types. But there's a lot of variance and cross-over too, as you say. I think the most intelligent type of theories are those which do draw lines of distinction and assert the discovery of patterns, but leave wiggle room - because Nature is seldom (never?) wholly consistent.
@animal
I'm so glad you're posting these points about Se! I've felt like CT's concept of SeNi has been weak ever since we first conceptualized/wrote about it in the book.. And this isn't to say Aub hasn't done his due diligence and tried to get into the mind of SeNi users, because I know he has! And he's done pretty damn well at quantifying a process that entirely outside of his scope of experience. But there's no substitute for direct data from those who actually have the function set.
And you've shared so much about this in such a well articulated way 🙂 I'm sure the description can be evolved to be accurate, and look forward to being able to more 'see through your eyes' ?

[Aletheia]

I wanted to respond to the conversation you guys were having about clumsiness, pitch in my experience/thoughts. But maybe we should split that topic into its own thread @Auburn? Feel free to move this post if you decide to do that 🙂
Although I'm Ji-lead, I don't experience clumsiness in the way described much at all. I do get lost in my thoughts and lose track of conversations like what you were saying @Bella (been trying to work on that one because it's so disrespectful not to listen to others when they're talking to you! :p) But when it comes to moving about in the world or keeping track of important objects, I tend to be very mindful.
When I was a child I remember my parents commenting about how careful I was with my toys and how I never broke anything. I think this comes in part from an innate attention to detail, as well as a tentative/cautious approach to the outside world and self-consciousness. I have always had a sense that I am borrowing space, and also a value for the essential nature of things. I am careful not to disrupt things in the world because in a way I feel they have their own autonomy, their own history and reason for being which is outside my comprehension. I also am careful about my movement in that I will stage myself in a certain way that I feel is aesthetically pleasing and which I imagine communicates my 'self' to others.
I'ma total grammar shark too :p I just can't ignore spelling errors (how do u ppl do it?! 0_o), they're too apparent like a sore thumb poking outa the sentence! Language is a system with a certain order and it grates on me when that order's broken.. Not just that, but words are sacred in that they are the bearers of our meaning. Words deserve our respect! They're from ancient origins - we do not own them, but they own us in a way as they define our thoughts and resonate into our deep emotional selves to change our inner landscapes. *steps off philosophical soapbox* Another reason I can't get away with spelling errors is I usually rewrite everything I say several times in order to refine it for accuracy and social context..
oh the OCD! ?
I should note that I'm probably mildly autistic, so this may combine with my Ji to make me especially detail-oriented/perfectionist.
But then again I've also known/seen many other Ji and Pe leads who are coordinated and/or orderly who don't have autism. One of them is you @Auburn! You're quite coordinated/elegant if I may say so 🙂 I also have a best friend who's TiSe I--I (not sure how conscious Se is), and she is a meticulous artist who's very good at dance. My aunt who's FiNe II-I also is a skilled painter and rather poised/graceful in her movement. Then there's NeFi performers such as Aurora, Florence Welch and Brittany Spears, FiSe Michael Jackson.. the list goes on. I don't think it's likely that all of these people started out struggling with coordination, and trained themselves to develop it.. I know that's not the case for me.
It occurred to me while writing this, could this clumsiness you guys are describing here be more about emphasis on Pe with sub or unconscious Je? Because I've noticed lately that Je seems to be what coordinates the body - being the 'articulator' function. Maybe one would tend to be lacking in ability for physical comportment when Pe rather than Je is the primary extroverted function utilized?

[Animal]

.

[Animal]

Perhaps we need to distinguish between these - they are all very different things.  Which ones apply to you??  (Feel free to leave out anything uncomfortable or personal if you respond. )
MOVEMENT & BODY

• Dexterous vs. Uncoordinated
• Graceful vs. Bullish
• Rapid speech vs. Slow, careful speech
• Rapid movement vs. Slow, careful movement

AWARENESS

• Physical (sensing your bodily 'presence') vs. Unphysical
• Present (with others) vs. Not Present
• Losing things vs. Responsible
• Walking into things/Spacey vs. Aware of environment
• Good at driving vs. Bad at driving
• Focused vs. Unfocused

STATE OF MIND & LEARNING

• Strong will power vs. Weak will power
• Willful vs. Passive
• Doer vs. Thinker
• Visual/Kinesthetic/Auditory vs. Intellectual/Verbal/Conceptual
• Random vs. Purposeful
• Bored & Stimulation Seeking vs. Huge Inner world
• Sensual vs. Not Sensual
• High Energy vs. Low Energy
• Motivated vs. Unmotivated

TALENTS & INTERESTS

• Sporty vs. Not Sporty
• Able to copy or delineate movements vs. Unable to copy or delineate movements
• Musical & Artistic vs. No artistic talent or interest
• Good at dancing vs. Suck at dancing

LIFESTYLE

• Sensitive to physical environment vs. Don't notice surroundings or care
• Messy vs. Neat
• Organized vs. Disorganized
• Beautiful home decor vs. Minimal attention to home decor
• Good at pragmatics (laundry, dishes, deadlines, bills) vs. Suck at pragmatics
• Foodie vs. Not foodie
• Sexual & Lusty vs. Sex (as a physical act) doesn't matter
• Thrill seeking vs. Thrills don't matter
• Risk taker vs. Cautious
• Vain about Appearance vs. Unconcerned with Appearance

 

[Animal]

MOVEMENT & BODY
Dexterous
Bullish
Rapid speech
Rapid movement
AWARENESS
Physical (sensing your bodily ‘presence’)
Present (with others)
Responsible (caveat: I have lost things during music shows & photoshoots due to hyperfocus  on the project.)
Aware of environment
Good at driving
Focused
STATE OF MIND & LEARNING
Strong will power
Willful
Doer
Visual/Kinesthetic/Auditory
Purposeful
Huge Inner world
Sensual
High Energy
Motivated
TALENTS & INTERESTS
Not Sporty (caveat: Good at working out alone.)
Unable to copy or delineate movements
Musical & Artistic
Suck at dancing
LIFESTYLE
Sensitive to physical environment
Neat
Organized
Beautiful home decor
Good at pragmatics
Not Foodie
Sexual & Lusty
Thrills don't matter
Risk taker (caveat: only for the sake of actualizing a vision; not for 'the thrill')
Vain about Appearance

[Ivory]

MOVEMENT & BODY
Dexterous
Graceful
Slow, careful speech
Slow, careful movement
AWARENESS
Physical (sensing your bodily ‘presence’) vs. Unphysical - 50/50
Present (with others)
Responsible
Aware of environment
Good at driving
Unfocused
STATE OF MIND & LEARNING
Weak will power
Passive
Thinker
Visual/Kinesthetic/Auditory vs. Intellectual/Verbal/Conceptual - aiaiaiaiai (both)
Purposeful
Bored & Stimulation Seeking
Sensual
Low Energy
Unmotivated
TALENTS & INTERESTS
Not Sporty
Able to copy or delineate movements
Musical & Artistic
Good at dancing
LIFESTYLE
Sensitive to physical environment
Neat
Organized
Minimal attention to home decor
Good at pragmatics (laundry, dishes, deadlines, bills)
Not foodie
Sexual & Lusty
Thrills don’t matter
Cautious
Vain about Appearance

[Aletheia]

I like this idea Animal :3 Maybe we can tease apart what we're actually talking about here..
So here goes:

• I'm pretty Dexterous, especially with my hands
• People tell me I'm Graceful
• I think I'm probably more Angular
• Definitely Not Sporty - this is the one place where I really suck at coordination! But I'm very good in martial arts so not sure if I'm just psyched out about other sports? 😛
• I think I'm Physical actually: I developed an awareness of how I'm feeling physically because I have to keep track of my diabetes. Now I constantly notice my body unless I'm really focused on something.
• I'm usually Not Present with others. Although I can be very attentive and present when I try.
• Definitely Sensual 😉
• Strong will power, if not for that I wouldn't still be alive! 😮
• I think I'm Passive. I'ma floating observer ^^
• I'm Visual/Intellectual/Conceptual
• Very good at delineating and copying movements
• Thinker, although when I'm feeling well I do A LOT!
• I'd say I'm a balance between Risk taker and Cautious.
• Definitely Purposeful
• I has a Huge Inner world ^__^
• Responsible - I don't often lose things, but responsible is the wrong word for me too! ;p
• I'm Aware of the environment, hyper-aware in some ways.
• um, Bad at driving. Yeah.
• Not foodie
• Sexual
• Musical & Artistic (both please! :D)
• Very Good at dancing!
• Suck at pragmatics.. but not so much when I'm feeling well.

EDIT: bah - I posted before I saw you updated the list! >,< I may revisit later to add the other answers.

[Animal]

.

[Bera]

Oh, this sounds like a fun way to disappoint everyone ! I'll do it :
MOVEMENT & BODY
Uncoordinated
Graceful with some bullish undertones
Very slow, careful speech - I believe I have a mild speech disorder and try to compensate by speaking slowly, I guess.
Later edit about this - I sometimes speak fast but with long breaks. It's not really the slow introverted type of speech, it's fast Pe + seeliness combined with  pauses in which I search for words or for a clear opinion about something.
Rapid movement of hands while talking, I walk fast and give a general impression of agitation; sometimes I react slowly though :))
AWARENESS
Unphysical - I am of course aware if something hurts or of stuff like cold/heat/different types of discomfort; usually I am not thinking about my body though...do you guys mean you are somehow aware of your bodies...generally? Are you sure? Cause if I look at it closely, it feels unlikely for someone who is not an athlete or indeed who has a medical condition to be constantly aware of his body.
Generally Not Present but I am completely present when I am with close friends
Losing things, irresponsible
Walking into things/spacey, non-aware of environment
I could kill someone if I started driving :)) I have no split attention. I can't simultaneously do all the things drivers must do; I have a license but never used it since I got it; I am responsible in this regard 🙂
Focused, mostly
STATE OF MIND & LEARNING
Strong will power
Willful but I can get passive aggressive :)))
Doer vs. Thinker - None of these. I am a Feeler 😛
Visual !!! But I also consider myself somewhat intellectual, though not in the verbal sense, if that's even possible. Not an intellectual as the word is generally used though.
Purposefully experiential (??) :))
Huge Inner world - this is an Fi - Ni thing though, Se just helps with input I guess
Sensual -  I have sensual, erotic, playful energy. If you mean anything regarding interest in sensory stimulation or any other sensor stuff, nope.
Medium Energy
Motivated
TALENTS & INTERESTS
Not Sporty - I can swim pretty well and have a somewhat athletic body though
Unable to copy or delineate movements but I can adapt to social situations and this can involve some copying of what others do
No artistic talent; I love art though
Suck at dancing
LIFESTYLE
I don’t notice surroundings or care
Very messy (I have low conscientiousness)
Disorganized
Minimal attention to home décor - I live in a rented apartment. I didn't do anything to improve its décor except for adopting Cat; I never did anything to improve my office space either.
Suck at pragmatics - did I tell you guys how once I didn't pay my internet bill and I stayed without internet a whole weekend? And the very next week I forgot to pay my electrical bill and they cut electricity and I had to ponder my life choices in the dark for a couple of days? :))
Used to be foodie but after some minor issues with my gut I had a period of anxieties connected to food. I seem to be turning to foodie again.
I am rather lusty but organize my life in a way that would suggest sex (as a physical act) doesn’t matter, so I don't really know. Sex without love is meaningless. Very affectionate sex can be unsatisfying. Finding the right balance is a bit hard and I am procrastinating the moment when I will decide to have a partner again, because I'm not sure what type of partner I actually need.
I naturally act like a person who is always highly stimulated. I'm not thrill seeking but...to me it feels like the thrills are always present
Cautious
About appearance - this varies depending on where I want to go and if I want to make an impression or not.
I answered as well as I could. Not sure how much it helps.

[Elsie]

these can mean so much different things to different people..and potential for bias..but will drop it in anyways..
MOVEMENT & BODY
Dexterous (i cant really move-finely/joints without effort anymore, but that is beside the point)
Graceful
Rapid speech (the speech is not slow, but long pauses between)
Slow, careful movement (from my-end, anyways)
AWARENESS
Physical (sensing your bodily ‘presence’) (both..) (and in others)
Present (with others)
Responsible
Aware of environment (depends if care tbh)
Good at driving
Focused
STATE OF MIND & LEARNING
Strong will power
Passive
Doer (i dont do a lot, but the max i can)
Visual/Kinesthetic/Auditory
Purposeful
Bored & Stimulation Seeking vs. Huge Inner world (WHERE IS NEITHER?)
Not Sensual (gonna get punched..)
High Energy
Motivated
TALENTS & INTERESTS
Sporty
Able to copy or delineate movements (not really sure what this one means..probably)
Musical & Artistic
Suck at dancing (just never tried/cared)
LIFESTYLE
Sensitive to physical environment
Neat
Organized
Beautiful home decor vs. Minimal attention to home decor (really, it depends what the room/intentions and expectations are..tho functional is better, and minimal easier to keep clean or rearrange if necessary)
Good at pragmatics (laundry, dishes, deadlines, bills)
Not foodie (tho got entire system/rules around food to make sure i dont die of starvation or other complications, so ppl would prolly say i am)
Sex (as a physical act) doesn’t matter (it does matter, but not for me - for the-other, or in ways which are gratifying not to the physical body, like gigantic-ego)
Thrills don’t matter
Cautious (take risks...not chances)
Vain about Appearance (i know im vain, but i wouldnt say its excessive..just preoccupied with my own energy/vibe)

[sekundaer]

(Before pressing "submit" I noticed that there were more than that single page of posts that I have read.  Which mean that I have only read the first third of the thread. So maybe I am repeating something that has already been said, but now I am too tired to go though all these posts.  I will go to bed and read them tomorrow)
Haha,  Bella!  :-))))  Had so much fun reading your description. And I am laughing with you, not at you.
I am not sure that people from another typological family than ours would be able to enjoy the fun, I know that I have to take care to whom I tell stories about my non-present states and what awkward situations was the result.
Your stories seem to be totally identical to mine, therefore I enjoy them. I will comment as I read them:
* going to school with a new backpack full of new books on the first day of school.. only to return home with no backpack (and not even realize it until my mom asked me “where is your backpack?”)
I also did this often.  I had the nickname "Professor" as a child because of incidents like this.
* going to the grocery store to get only 1 or 2 things.. forgetting what those things were and coming back with nothing (or calling my mom to ask what that one thing she asked me for was)
Oh, yes, and also later in my youth:  waking up in a shop to the question: Can I help?  First looking to find out which kind of shop I was in, then trying to remember what I wanted from there, and as I remembered found out that this was the wrong shop
*constantly dropping things. like. always. (when i was younger it was to an extreme.. i’d pick them up, and they’d slip out of my hand a second time right after.. so it would take several attempts to gain the object back into my hands)
This was why I started to read this thread as things have slipped out of my hand a second time again and again the last weeks.
* not being able to find things — even when they are right in front of me. “huh.. where?!?…?”
Sure
*bumping into street polls/lamps
Mandatory
* a very common one that remains true today still to an extreme — i don’t notice building around me… so they could be building a new store/bridge/building right outside my house or on a street i walk on every day to get to work — and i will not notice it. even when its all ready.. i may still not notice it.
I am totally with you.   I notice things like that today, maybe due to decades of mindfulness training.  But if I drive with someone as the passenger, I have no idea where we are driving. Which mean if I am asked to be the one driving home again I dont know if to go north, south, west or east.
*big blue bruises on my legs (constantly) which i can’t remember when/where i got.. (and several times in which i broke/sprained my hands)
No, not that one.  I pay attention to risks by instinct.
*forgetting laundry in the machine, washing it again, only to forget it in there again
This situation I know of course.  I wash in a shared laundry and usually the clothes are still there the next day but I have had to go to the caretaker to get the laundry I forgot the day before.  I find it almost too trivial to write about, but the caretaker had a hard time to understand how it was possible to forget a thing like that.  For me its hard to understand how people always remember  ( I have to set a reminder to be sure to remember).
* leaving bags of newly bought stuff on taxi cabs, or in the store itself right after paying (the latter especially happens a lot)
Also done that
....*i almost always walk around with my bag open cause it feels too much of a energetic investment to close it up, so my appearance can also come across as clumsy..
Yes. Some weeks ago I noticed my external harddisk didnt seem to work, and also that I had forgot to do a backup of things on it. Shit, shit, shit. I immediately put it in my backpack to go have it repaired (and by habit left the bag open) and as i swung the bag on my shoulder the hardisk flew up and fell from 3 meters unto the floor.  Many years of  work....  Oh, I almost regret that I wrote this, as I cant forgive myself and also feel that I maybe shouldnt.
But overall I am less clumsy and forgetful now than when young.  Maybe as I said because of a lot of mindfulness practice ( I am not so attached to my thoughts no more) but also because I am more cautious now.  I do not trust that I remember things, so I always write it down or use some kind of system.  And I take things more serious. Which all sound like Si.   BTW, mindful walking (to practice being mindful while taking a walk) or being mindful during daily activities  seems to me like training one´s  Se.  I will question that its not possible or worthwhile to train Se as an Alpha.   For example doing Tai Chi has been very helpful to me, especially training with and against others.  This seems like a very Se activity.  Tango dancing is almost like tai chi on the dance floor. And of course all kinds of sports.  It might be rather foreign to a prototype JiNe, and one might never me a master in any of those disciplines but that does not mean that there isnt something to get from cultivating what this function is about.  I guess that following the logic of CT would be to think that the only way to go  as a JiNe is to develop Je, but that in itself might not help with the clumsiness which is lack of Se.  And everybody can train to become more attentive, more aware of the body,  use ones senses and look, hear, feel, taste, smell and by doing this become more extroverted.  I think that this would be a good medicine for us JiNe's ,  I cant think of anything better.
 
 

[Becks]

It occurred to me while writing this, could this clumsiness you guys are describing here be more about emphasis on Pe with sub or unconscious Je? Because I’ve noticed lately that Je seems to be what coordinates the body – being the ‘articulator’ function. Maybe one would tend to be lacking in ability for physical comportment when Pe rather than Je is the primary extroverted function utilized?

I agree with this.
I can come across as very clumsy, physically uncoordinated, and I think this is coming along with a lack of focus on what I am actually doing.
And if something is pushing me to be focused, I can be well coordinated and quick (passed the first hesitation).
 
And same about mental coordination, I often miss the point in a conversation, especially group discussions, or completely misunderstand what it was about.
The expressions I often heard about myself, especially during my childhood and teenage years:
Avoir la tête dans les nuages - to have one's head in the clouds
Être dans la lune - to be on the moon
Être à côté de la plaque - to be off-track

[Ash Rose]

Hey, I thought I would add my 2 cents here even though I haven’t read through all the replies yet.
I don’t consider myself to be particularly very clumsy though some friends have made fun of me for my tendency to drop things and have said they “wouldn’t trust me around the power tools.” I think some of that may have to do with my tendency to be quite spacey, but I have pretty excellent control over my body. As a child I participated in dance and was placed in advanced classes. As a painter it is often noted that I have incredible dexterity and control with a brush. My biggest criticism is I need to learn to let go of control and be more spontaneous (like the main character in Black Swan). I’ve never considered myself particular graceful, however, and when dancing with a partner I have the tendency to want to lead. I’m incredibly controlling in every aspect of my life.
MOVEMENT & BODY
Dexterous
Bullish
Slow, careful speech
Slow, careful movement
AWARENESS
Unphysical
Not Present
Responsible
Walking into things/Spacey
Bad at driving
Focused
STATE OF MIND & LEARNING
Strong willpower
Passive
Thinker
Intellectual/Verbal/Conceptual
Purposeful
Huge Inner world
Not Sensual
Low Energy
Motivated
TALENTS & INTERESTS
Not Sporty
Able to copy or delineate movements
Musical & Artistic
Good at dancing
LIFESTYLE
Don’t notice surroundings or care
Neat
Organized
Minimal attention to home decor
Good at pragmatics (laundry, dishes, deadlines, bills)
Not foodie
Sex (as a physical act) doesn’t matter
Thrill seeking
Cautious
Vain about Appearance

[Elsie]

time to review/take-stock of this

[Keso]

MOVEMENT & BODY
Uncoordinated
Graceful
more slow, careful speech (I only tend to be rapid and sharp in my native language, when arguing)
Slow, careful movement
AWARENESS
Unphysical
Not Present
Responsible
Walking into things/Spacey
Bad at driving
Focused
STATE OF MIND & LEARNING
Strong will power
Willful
Doer
Intellectual/Verbal/Conceptual
Very random when relaxed, VERY purposeful when focused
Huge Inner world
Sensual
High Energy
Motivated
TALENTS & INTERESTS
Not Sporty
Unable to copy or delineate movements
Musical & Artistic
Suck at dancing
LIFESTYLE
Sensitive to physical environment
I used to be very messy, neatness is learned, but it's very natural now
Organized
Beautiful home decor is often minimal for me
Good at pragmatics (laundry, dishes, deadlines, bills)
Foodie
Sexual
Thrill seeking
Cautious in the streets, risk taker in the sheets
Unconcerned about appearance

[fayest42]

For the choices that were a closer call, I used italics instead of bold text.
MOVEMENT & BODY

• Dexterous vs. Uncoordinated
• Graceful vs. Bullish
• Rapid speech vs. Slow, careful speech
• Rapid movement vs. Slow, careful movement

AWARENESS

• Physical (sensing your bodily ‘presence’) vs. Unphysical
• Present (with others) vs. Not Present
• Losing things vs. Responsible
• Walking into things/Spacey vs. Aware of environment
• Good at driving vs. Bad at driving - I actually think I'm a fairly good driver, but I do struggle with a couple of things - judging distances and speed (e.g. do I have time to turn before this car comes? do I have time to stop or should I keep going when the light turns turns yellow?) and sometimes being overly cautious/nervous.
• Focused vs. Unfocused - I can be extremely focused under certain circumstances, but it's not my default state

STATE OF MIND & LEARNING

• Strong will power vs. Weak will power
• Willful vs. Passive - this depends a lot on context for me. I can go very far to both ends of the spectrum here depending on how comfortable I feel with the people I'm around (less comfortable = less willful)
• Doer vs. Thinker
• Visual/Kinesthetic/Auditory vs. Intellectual/Verbal/Conceptual
• Random vs. Purposeful - a bit of both, but moreso on the purposeful side
• Bored & Stimulation Seeking vs. Huge Inner world - definitely a bit of both, but moreso on the inner world side
• Sensual vs. Not Sensual
• High Energy vs. Low Energy
• Motivated vs. Unmotivated - I can be quite motivated when something is really important to me, but I feel like my level of motivation for everyday tasks is less than average.

TALENTS & INTERESTS

• Sporty vs. Not Sporty
• Able to copy or delineate movements vs. Unable to copy or delineate movements
• Musical & Artistic vs. No artistic talent or interest - This is overstating it a bit. I went through a phase in high school of being into photography, but it didn't last long. I enjoy singing quite a bit and I have learned to play the ukulele (not particularly well in either case), but I don't do either of these things very often, and I feel like I really have little to no natural musical ability and I have to work extra hard to learn simple musical things.
• Good at dancing vs. Suck at dancing  - I actually really love to dance. It's one of the few times I feel like I can get out of my head and into my body. But I don't think I'm particularly good at it.

LIFESTYLE

• Sensitive to physical environment vs. Don’t notice surroundings or care - I do actually notice that the physical environment has an affect on me, but I'm not conscious of it most of the time. I just notice it if something changes. Like I might be sitting in the dark and not really conscious of it until someone turns on a light, and then I'm like, "Oh, that's better."
• Messy vs. Neat
• Organized vs. Disorganized
• Beautiful home decor vs. Minimal attention to home decor
• Good at pragmatics (laundry, dishes, deadlines, bills) vs. Suck at pragmatics - I am quite good at deadlines and bills and other non-physical pragmatics. But I struggle more with things like dishes and laundry.
• Foodie vs. Not foodie
• Sexual & Lusty vs. Sex (as a physical act) doesn’t matter  - This is overstating it a bit. I'm not asexual. But I'm more on that side of the spectrum than average.
• Thrill seeking vs. Thrills don’t matter - I do actually enjoy a good thrill, although I'm definitely not what you would call a thrill seeker. It takes less to thrill me than most - things like rollercoasters, white-water rafting, etc. are too much for me. But I like the feeling of being on top of a mountain. And I like going out to a club and dancing. Those are thrilling for me.
• Risk taker vs. Cautious
• Vain about Appearance vs. Unconcerned with Appearance - I went through a period of my life of probably about 4 or 5 years when I was pretty interested in my clothing choices, although even then I never got really into makeup. Nowadays I put pretty minimal effort into my appearance and am mainly concerned with being comfortable. I would actually like to look nice, but when I have to choose between looking nice and being comfortable, I pretty much always choose comfortable. And most of the time I'm too focused on other things to think about my appearance.

ETA: It's also probably worth mentioning that when I was a kid, roller rink birthday parties were the bane of my existence because I was always the kid who fell and got hurt and had to call my mom to come pick me up. To this day I really don't like sports that involve being unsteady on my feet (mountain biking, roller skating, skiing, etc.). On the other hand, I did do gymnastics when I was a kid, and I really enjoyed it and was reasonably good at it.

[Ninth]

MOVEMENT & BODY
* Dexterous vs. Uncoordinated - used to be very U as a child; I become U whenever I'm thinking deeply
* Graceful vs. Bullish
* Rapid speech vs. Slow, careful speech - unbelievably R when I feel that my thoughts were already organized (they often joke about this); S normally
* Rapid movement vs. Slow, careful movement - S normally
AWARENESS
* Physical (sensing your bodily ‘presence’) vs. Unphysical
* Present (with others) vs. Not Present - but silent and observing
* Losing things vs. Responsible
* Walking into things/Spacey vs. Aware of environment - when thinking, I easily trip in my shoes, but it's a matter of coordination
* Good at driving vs. Bad at driving - I also love driving, it makes me feel good
* Focused vs. Unfocused
STATE OF MIND & LEARNING
* Strong will power vs. Weak will power - not sure
* Willful vs. Passive - not sure
* Doer vs. Thinker - depends but generally T
* Visual/Kinesthetic/Auditory vs. Intellectual/Verbal/Conceptual - mhh, I think it's generally conceptual › visual › olfactory
* Random vs. Purposeful
* Bored & Stimulation Seeking vs. Huge Inner world
* Sensual vs. Not Sensual
* High Energy vs. Low Energy
* Motivated vs. Unmotivated - not sure
TALENTS & INTERESTS
* Sporty vs. Not Sporty - used to be a swimmer/runner & play badminton/ping-pong till I quit my -teens, but I never considered myself "sporty"
* Able to copy or delineate movements vs. Unable to copy or delineate movements
* Musical & Artistic vs. No artistic talent or interest - except I sometimes like to look at pictures or listen to music for the sake of sensual pleasure
* Good at dancing vs. Suck at dancing - not sure, but I enjoy it, especially when I'm alone
LIFESTYLE
* Sensitive to physical environment vs. Don’t notice surroundings or care - perhaps too much
* Messy vs. Neat - depends, though
* Organized vs. Disorganized - depends, though
* Beautiful home decor vs. Minimal attention to home decor - don't care as long as it's tidy and clean (must look like an "healthy" environment)
* Good at pragmatics (laundry, dishes, deadlines, bills) vs. Suck at pragmatics
* Foodie vs. Not foodie - I can become anhedonic, then I dislike/forget to eat bc it's not satisfying; otherwise, I'm foodie and I enjoy cooking
* Sexual & Lusty vs. Sex (as a physical act) doesn’t matter - I rarely ever find the strong chemistry I need for lust to rise & for me to desire intimacy, but I don't believe that "sex doesn't matter"
* Thrill seeking vs. Thrills don’t matter - not sure
* Risk taker vs. Cautious - when I take risks, it's because I feel confident about my resources; I experience myself as generally cautious
* Vain about Appearance vs. Unconcerned with Appearance - I can play with appearance if I want to join a "social game"; but I don't really care

[SierraTangoWhiskey]

Well, not going to say I’m clumsy per se...      but I do tend to strongly favor my inner world I’ve the outer.
I play a game where I actually try to pay attention to things while I’m driving.
(Now that you’re all done freaking out, let me explain.)
More often than not I’m in autopilot mode. I’ll take the northbound exit when I should have taken the south. Just because it’s the route that I do familiar with. I’m not thinking about my destination, just whatever’s captured my attention. My wife will totally attest to my brainlessness while driving. “Why are you going this way, it’s soo much longer!”  To which I reply, “hey, we’re still going to get there aren’t we?”
I probably miss 90% of life just because aim not looking at it.
Since I have this self knowledge I try to be intentional about being mindful of the short time that I have with my kids as well as extensive note taking and planning at work.
Without rigid discipline and structure I would be totally worthless (from a productivity standpoint.). Probably part of why I may come off so up tight at times when really I’m much more easy going.
I’ve never been clumsy. Never been athletic either. But in my later years I’ve put a ton of effort into my fitness and health.  In my early years I excelled more in school than I did in sports (always the last kid picked!). But that boiled down mostly to where I chose to focus my efforts. I’m no natural athlete, but with practice I can hold my own.

[Rickus]

This is interesting. I used to think I was NeFi because my clumsiness levels are insane. Once I almost lost a part of my finger in a meat grinder. Its ironic because I've been typed as SeFi here, and I mostly agree, but I've always been really absent minded. Like I used to constantly forget where I left my school bag, whether I brushed my teeth a few seconds ago, kicking into objects lying on the floor. Since I'm not Ne, what could my clumsiness be attributed to.

[Rickus]

Yet in other arenas I see my Se is more evident. I have a vivid awareness of my environment when I am traveling. Like I will notice interesting posters on high rise buildings for example when I was in Shanghai, whereas my friend was on her phone all the time, telling me I live in the moment, while she looks at the big picture.
I've seen the argument used a lot on typing websites, they say if your clumsy you are automatically not Se, but I don't think its good to look solely at this one trait.

[fayest42]

Se can sometimes have a kind of tunnel vision, right? Like an extreme focus? So perhaps Se can lead to clumsiness when you're focused on the billboard you're looking at and not the tree you're about to run into, for example. Does that sound plausible to the Se people here?

[SierraTangoWhiskey]

I think we may need to make a distinction or definition of what we mean by clumsiness.
It seems there are two factors at work here.
One is what one is paying attention to. An Ne may be daydreaming or an Se may be focused on a physical detail. Both may end up tripping over themselves because of it.
Second is general bodily coordination. Some people for purely vestibular reasons are clutzes (or perhaps should just stay off the dance floor.)
Some people may naturally have better movement development by genetics others by practice (I fall in the second group.).
To say that all Se are born with superior coordination is difficult as you’re probably apt to find a distribution of personality types across sports. (Or perhaps to see how Se career paths are distributed.)
i can see how an Se with focus on their body could develop more athletic skills over time. But also an Ne with a fixation on movement may equally improve coordination.
I think it comes down to what you pay attention to and how much you practice it.

[Ninth]

Se can sometimes have a kind of tunnel vision, right? Like an extreme focus? So perhaps Se can lead to clumsiness when you’re focused on the billboard you’re looking at and not the tree you’re about to run into, for example. Does that sound plausible to the Se people here?

@fayest42 yea, that's one.

[Starshade]

I used to be physically clumsy, and be quite bad at physical sports, alway last in gym, used to overstep, fall, easily hurt myself, not paying attention to where I walk, often ripping clothes, walking into glass doors etc. I've done most such things.
That said; I think I have improved my physical sense of where I am, area around me, and is increasingly less clumsy. The spacey non attention is often just daydreaming, I still am otherworldly dreamer. But Is increasingly more physical capable, as, I am a safe driver, and due to the social environment I have been raised in, works on the practical skills of a "driver" too, simpler maintenance, simpler mechanical skills.
I know someone I suspect is INTP (i think TiNe) which basically do stuff as not paying attention driving, and once delivered mail without a back wheel (it was still there just, not doing anything Wheelish stuff, as moving...). . . Pooor car....  -_-
I always check what I carry with me, always, at least twice. Makes sure keys, cell phone, and other items is there, and safe. I got quite good memory, so I can remember what I got, and is close to photographic memory. While I cannot do blind chess Magnus Carlsen style, it helps to keep track of things, and, I need it.

[Author]

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