Vultology Quiz #3 : 5 Celebrity Samples!

[commakaze]

I'm in

[Joseph S]

I’m in! Sorry I’m late, can I still participate

[blank boy]

Is it too late to be in?

[Juan E. Sandoval]

sure @blankboy !
and there are a few people whose results i still need so i'm gonna give them a few more hours.

[Juan E. Sandoval]

Results

Okay, times up! Any submissions from here on are not counted but it seems almost everyone got a chance to send theirs.
Here are everyone's estimates of type!
I haven't run the statistics on the 'mean' score and will do that in a bit. But here are my typings and my reasonings alongside them:

Name	Billie Eilish	Queen Silvia	Lars von Trier	Marina Diamandis	Bart Ehrman	Relation to Aub's	%	Relation to the Group Mean
CourtJester	SeTi	SiFe	FiSe	FeSi	TeSi	15	75	TBD
Keso	NeTi	NiFe	NiFe	FiSe	TeSi	11	55	TBD
Septimus	SeFi	FiSe	NiTe	TiNe	SiTe	15	75	TBD
Nadia	SeFi	FiNe	NiFe	NeTi	SiTe	16	80	TBD
Becks	SeFi	FeSi	NiFe	NeFi	SiFe	17	85	TBD
Ash	SeFi	NiFe	NiTe	TiNe	SiTe	17	85	TBD
Joseph	SeTi	SiFe	NiTe	TiSe	SiTe	16	80	TBD
Celeste	SeFi	FeNi	NiTe	SeFi	SeFi	14	70	TBD
Staas	SeFi	FeNi	NiTe	TiNe	TeSi	17	85	TBD
Faeruss	SeFi	TeSi	SiTe	FeNi	NeFi	14	70	TBD
Heresy	SeTi	FeNi	NiTe	NeTi	SiFe	17	85	TBD
Sander	FeNi	FeSi	NiFe	FeSi	FeSi	13	65	TBD
Sekundaer	SeFi	TiSe	NiTe	TiNe	SiTe	16	80	TBD
Bera	SeFi	FiNe	NiTe	NeTi	TeSi	16	80	TBD
Solace	SeTi	TiNe	SiTe	FeNi	SiFe	13	65	TBD
Bella	SeFi	FiNe	NiTe	NeTi	TeSi	16	80	TBD
Rondo	SeFi	FeNi	NiTe	TiNe	SiFe	17	85	TBD
Scientiam	SeTi	FeSi	NiFe	TiSe	SiTe	16	80	TBD
Sitbone	SeTi	NiFe	SiTe	NeTi	FeSi	14	70	TBD
Hrafn	SeTi	TeNi	NiFe	FeSi	SiTe	15	75	TBD
hackphobia	SeTi	FeSi	NiTe	FiNe	SiFe	16	80	TBD
Auburn	SeFi	FeSi	NiTe	NeTi	SiTe	N/A	N/A	TBD
The Mean Score	TBD	TBD	TBD	TBD	TBD	TBD	N/A	N/A

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kVcd9JWU5C1aYB8Egkz6ZuRBMoB0ynDZCngPEUQHpZ0/edit?usp=sharing
 
The results are definitely not random, and there's quite a convergent overall on many types, which is great to see from a visual typing system!
As always my typings are also debatable so feel free to discuss! I tried to cover all the main points, but if any slipped by - feel free to ask. (But I'll respond tomorrow, as I've run out of time for today.)

[Juan E. Sandoval]

For those interested in finer detail...

Spoiler

Here is a point-by-point tally

Name	Billie Eilish	Queen Silvia	Lars von Trier	Marina Diamandis	Bart Ehrman	All or Nothing Score
CourtJester	3	3	3	3	3	0
Keso	2	2	3	1	3	0
Septimus	4	0	4	3	4	3
Nadia	4	1	3	4	4	3
Becks	4	4	3	3	3	2
Ash	4	2	4	3	4	3
Joseph	3	3	4	2	4	2
Celeste	4	3	4	2	1	2
Staas	4	3	4	3	3	2
Faeruss	4	3	3	2	2	1
Heresy	3	3	4	4	3	2
Sander	2	4	3	2	2	1
Sekundaer	4	1	4	3	4	3
Bera	4	1	4	4	3	3
Solace	3	2	3	2	3	0
Bella	4	1	4	4	3	3
Rondo	4	3	4	3	3	2
Scientiam	3	4	3	2	4	2
Sitbone	3	2	3	4	2	1
Hrafn	3	2	3	3	4	1
Hackphobia	3	4	4	2	3	2

 

[collapse]

[bella]

Bart seems more Je lead to me in this video (and in some others..) compared to SiTe (even the Ne conscious ones)..
any thoughts on this anyone?
He also reminds me of Ken Jenning and Robert Spitzer.

 

[Hrafn]

I spent probably 45 minutes on that Queen--even tried to use that new tracking tool--and I still managed to get her function pairs ass-backward. On the other hand, I literally took about a 20-second glance at the Bart Ehrman video before I recognized him as SiTe. So I guess my lesson from this is that typing by gestalt often works better than trying to break things down analytically. At least for me.
Also, I'm honestly a bit surprised about Billie Eilish being SeFi rather than SeTi. As far as I could tell, she had flat cheeks and pretty symmetrical mouth movements. She did a puppetteer hands gesture near the beginning of the interview, and what looked to me like a Ti neutralization toward the end (sorry, too lazy to find the timestamps). I've noticed with the Ji functions, specifically, there seems to be a very fine line between signals that are specific to Ti or Fi, and signals that are general to both. Most importantly, though, she seemed to me like she had a very coordinated emotional delivery. Yes, I remember disgust expressions, etc., but both these and her persona more generally felt quite deliberately presented to me. I guess Te can become adept at social dynamics as well, if it wants to.
Edit: Oh, I just noticed the linked docs with the explanations for the different typings--hadn't seen it when I wrote the paragraph above.

[Anonymous]

@hrafn, I relate to what you are saying. I included in my results that my typing method was 35% vultology code, 20% video database comparisons, and 45% intuitive guess. I also read their types only based on the videos provided (I didn't look for other videos) and I used the vultology code to get confirm/deny my guess (I know that is bad practice, but since I am not well versed on every signal it's hard not to be like "I can see this person is a Ni lead but I can't find the signals in the video that display what I am seeing." Also, one thing missing from the CT Reading App is the "energetics" section on the CT tally sheet, because most of the time that is instantly what I get, their "energetics:" e.g. this person is rigid and has a pole in their spine "constricting" energy, this other person, Billie Elish, is being weighed down, stumped down by her head pulling/slowing her bubbling energy down at some points (and she also looks like she has a pole in her spine sometimes that pitches her up like a tent).

[Rua]

--------Notes on my Errors--------
Queen Silvia: Correctly identified as Adaptive Fe-lead, acknowledged the possibility of FeSi I--- and FeSi II-- to myself, but did not look at younger pictures of her (d/t her advanced age in the sample video) as I should have done, and as Auburn did in his explanation. I also did not properly weigh the extent to which her Pi was conscious and active, leading her away from baseline Je-rigidness with its frequency and movement.
Marina Diamandis: Initially typed her as NeTi II Adaptive (and even wrote a paragraph justifying this conclusion), but second-guessed myself and submitted TiNe II-- Adaptive. Will need to keep studying the Type II-- Reviser/Conductor dynamic, as the differences between Type II Revisers & Conductors seem exceedingly subtle.
Bart Ehrman - Failed to account for Ne development in my typing; will need to re-examine the PiJe II-I's to better grasp the subtleties at play in this development. Will also need to re-evaluate my criteria for Fe>Te, as I correctly identified a very present and active Je (I strongly considered JePi as his base type). I acknowledged the possibility that his Je head shakes were Te, but concluded Fe>Te incorrectly and based on faulty Fe>Te gesticulation criteria.

[Juan E. Sandoval]

About 1-vid-specific typing - @heresy made a similar point in Discord and I've been mulling over it too. One thing that I've been forced to acknowledge is that vultology is a diagnostic tool (in a toolbox) but not an absolute verdict of type. In theory that might come in the form of genetic testing later. And we don't yet know the operational limits of vultology, but lets say this:

Notes on Modulation

Even when correctly identifying signals & energetics of the given video, perhaps there remains the possibility of modulation giving a sister typing. Having just finished the development levels series, I haven't explored the repercussions of its theoretical addition fully but lets say that, being pessimistic, modulating can genuinely obscure type.
To put an example, it may be the case that a NeTi modulating up Ti can look indistinguishable from a TiNe for brief periods, even according to the code standards as of today. For example, we take three videos and see:

• Vid #1: Results by the code TiNe ll--
• Vid #2: Results by the code NeTi ll--
• Vid #3: Results by the code NeTi l---

If that is the case, then a reading needs to be done on a per-video basis, and the "absolute truth" of their type needs a different sort of triangulation. This is already in effect as standard practice is to look at more videos of them, but the analysis by codex needs to be constrained to one video at a time, and when done so, it may land on the adjacent type.
So far the best remedy I've found for this is to make note of how the energetics of functions do look different in each hierarchical position. So for instance, there is a visual difference between:

• Pe as the lead position
• Pe as the auxiliary position
• Pe as the tertiary position
• Pe as the polar position

... And so on for the others. Nothing very thorough has been written or GIF'd about how the functions look in each position, but I think this could be a really awesome resource to have.

Will need to keep studying the Type II– Reviser/Conductor dynamic, as the differences between Type II Revisers & Conductors seem exceedingly subtle.

Disclaimer: Right ^
And having said that, there is a genuine possibility, and I've seen glimpses of it myself, that modulation sometimes goes beyond the subtlety we can fairly identify. At some point it becomes irresponsible to say to a practitioner "you're not seeing the subtlety" and one needs to concede that (lets say) a TeSi ll-- may look no different than an SiTe ll-- for short bursts of time. ( @bella - that video of Bart Ehrman you posted does look TeSi ll-- to me)
So if it is impossible to "100% guarantee" an accurate typing by one video alone, due to what modulation can obscure, then we can actually integrate that knowledge into the system and be sure to double-check other videos and triangulate data when seeking the holistic reality.
But for doing future quizzes, we can keep it to 1 given video, so as to have consistency in what precisely is being examined at the given moment/footage, and grade just that. I think that would be the most fair and consistent approach. I wonder what you guys think?

[Bera]

@bella - I also thought Bart Ehrman is TeSi. Well, first I actually thought he is SiTe because of his fixed gaze and because he seems eye centric. But then, after I compared him to SiTe's and TeSi's in the database, I couldn't find any similar SiTe. The ones in the database don't get at this level of snippyness, at this energy level and decisiveness. So, this is why I typed him TeSi.
I brought some arguments for all the typings, so here are the ones for him :

 

Here I think we can see a rigid posture, Te snippy head shakes and head nods, Pi fixed gaze, Si slanting edges, Si indented sockets.
Because of his fixed gaze, my first thought was he must be SiTe. But comparing him to the SiTe’s in the database, I arrived at the conclusion he is rather TeSi.
I found a video where I think this shows clearer because his hands can be also seen. I don’t think an Si lead even with conscious Te and unseelie, even with conscious Te and Ne gets at this energy level and maintains it for a long time. I might be wrong but it just seems unlikely.

Here I think we have Je pointed emphasis, Te snippy head nods, as well as Si slanting edges, Si indented sockets. He has a lot of conductor forwardness and we can see some head pushes. Most head movements seem to be to the front and not from side to side, which should show Te as first function.

Now looking again at the second gif though, his body posture is rather heavy than rigid and his wrists are softer than Te lead wrists, which would indeed show an Si lead with conscious Te.
So, my answer was more based on the fact no other SiTe reached this level of "I will show you how it is accompanying this with my very fast and snippy head nods and with my blunt humor" instead of putting more emphasis on energetics. 🙂
Still it is surprising to me that Si leads can look this similar to TeSi's.
Oh, @auburn, you just mentioned this. He does, it's strange !
In a way, it gives hope. It means we can modulate functions to a very high degree.

But for doing future quizzes, we can keep it to 1 given video, so as to have consistency in what precisely is being examined at the given moment/footage, and grade just that. I think that would be the most fair and consistent approach. I wonder what you guys think?

It sounds fair but I am not sure I can do it. Older people seem easier to type when watching videos of them when they were younger to see what function has priority (though I completely messed up the Queen's typing exactly because I did this. 🙂 ). Doing the same thing was helpful in Marina's case though. So...I am not sure what to say, I think the person's type must be found, no matter how much you need to dig and I was seeing the given videos more as a starting point. But the issue with this approach is that people will naturally watch different videos and then type based on different content.
I propose that...if we should just focus on the given videos, next time we would get 2 videos for each person, to at least see them in 2 different situations...which is also required for typing people here. What do you think?

[Juan E. Sandoval]

@bera @bella - Oh,  I hadn't looked at those other videos of him, but my argument in the Doc is essentially refuted by those gifs! What I said is that...

Spoiler

He appears to have a very heavy eye-centricity (his gaze is always forward and persistent) but things get a little more complicated when he starts gesturing.
Te

1:15

^ Je Head Nods/Shakes
Now, taken in isolation this might suggest TeSi but the quality of the GIF above is not as crisp as the TeSi ones are. There is still a smallness to the verticality of the head movements.
They don’t engage in the full commitment to face-centricity, but instead remain tethered to the eyes and how they connect down the neck/shoulders.
There is a “hooded” element to the Pi-lead doing Je head nods/shakes, almost as thought there was a ceiling right above them and they’re trying not to bump their head. But by contrast, the TeSi ll-- has no reservation to his left-right and up-down head movements:
TeSi ll-- James Cameron

[collapse]

This analysis is essentially reversed by the presence of gifs like:

^ Where we do see a full commitment to the verticality of head movements characteristic of Je-leads. And the ones in Bella's vid like:
3:00

and...

These and other moments indeed seem to cross beyond the SiTe ll-l type's vultology, and are squarely indicative of TeSi. I think, if I had seen these other vids, I might have come to agree with TeSi as well. It appears I rushed the final reading and didn't look thoroughly enough. (gotta walk the talk, eh?)
Anyhow I'm switching my typing of him to TeSi... but I understand the vid I provided was itself not representative, so I also mislead everyone else who typed him as Si-lead. :facepalm:
Learning lessons!

[Juan E. Sandoval]

A revised version...

Spoiler

Name	Billie Eilish	Queen Silvia	Lars von Trier	Marina Diamandis	Bart Ehrman	Auburn's Revised	%
CourtJester	SeTi	SiFe	FiSe	FeSi	TeSi	16	80
Keso	NeTi	NiFe	NiFe	FiSe	TeSi	12	60
Septimus	SeFi	FiSe	NiTe	TiNe	SiTe	14	70
Nadia	SeFi	FiNe	NiFe	NeTi	SiTe	15	75
Becks	SeFi	FeSi	NiFe	NeFi	SiFe	16	80
Ash	SeFi	NiFe	NiTe	TiNe	SiTe	16	80
Joseph	SeTi	SiFe	NiTe	TiSe	SiTe	15	75
Celeste	SeFi	FeNi	NiTe	SeFi	SeFi	14	70
Staas	SeFi	FeNi	NiTe	TiNe	TeSi	18	90
Faeruss	SeFi	TeSi	SiTe	FeNi	NeFi	15	75
Heresy	SeTi	FeNi	NiTe	NeTi	SiFe	16	80
Sander	FeNi	FeSi	NiFe	FeSi	FeSi	14	70
Sekundaer	SeFi	TiSe	NiTe	TiNe	SiTe	15	75
Bera	SeFi	FiNe	NiTe	NeTi	TeSi	17	85
Solace	SeTi	TiNe	SiTe	FeNi	SiFe	12	60
Bella	SeFi	FiNe	NiTe	NeTi	TeSi	17	85
Rondo	SeFi	FeNi	NiTe	TiNe	SiFe	16	80
Scientiam	SeTi	FeSi	NiFe	TiSe	SiTe	15	75
Sitbone	SeTi	NiFe	SiTe	NeTi	FeSi	15	75
Hrafn	SeTi	TeNi	NiFe	FeSi	SiTe	14	70
hackphobia	SeTi	FeSi	NiTe	FiNe	SiFe	15	75
Auburn	SeFi	FeSi	NiTe	NeTi	SiTe	N/A	N/A

[collapse]

And the tally...

Spoiler

Name	Billie Eilish	Queen Silvia	Lars von Trier	Marina Diamandis	Bart Ehrman	All or Nothing
CourtJester	3	3	3	3	4	1
Keso	2	2	3	1	4	1
Septimus	4	0	4	3	3	2
Nadia	4	1	3	4	3	2
Becks	4	4	3	3	2	2
Ash	4	2	4	3	3	2
Joseph	3	3	4	2	3	1
Celeste	4	3	4	2	1	2
Staas	4	3	4	3	4	3
Faeruss	4	3	3	2	3	1
Heresy	3	3	4	4	2	2
Sander	2	4	3	2	3	1
Sekundaer	4	1	4	3	3	2
Bera	4	1	4	4	4	4
Solace	3	2	3	2	2	0
Bella	4	1	4	4	4	4
Rondo	4	3	4	3	2	2
Scientiam	3	4	3	2	3	1
Sitbone	3	2	3	4	3	1
Hrafn	3	2	3	3	3	0
Hackphobia	3	4	4	2	2	2

[collapse]

This puts Staas (90), Bera (85) and Bella (85) as the ones at the top -- again, assuming me as the comparison point. But I'd actually be at (95), given my original misreading. The truth may be somewhere in the middle of us all.
Interestingly, Bera and Bella got the exact same typings:

• Billie: SeFi
• Queen Silvia: FiNe
• Lars: NiTe
• Mariana: NeTi
• Bart: TeSi

They differ from me only in Queen Silvia as FiNe rather than FeSi. Staas has the queen as FeNi, which is closer to my FeSi reading.
I think this is where I'd like to focus-- since it seems to me that this represents somewhat of a "cap" to where I am at vultologically and a palce where progress can be made as a group. I want to explore the congruence of Bera and Bella on FiNe for the queen more.
I did not watch any of her younger videos when making my analysis, and just watched 3-4 of her in old age. (once again, not practicing my own principles fully :facepalm: ).
Would either of you wish to present your case for FiNe, or what you thought at the moment? Also @nadia - who typed her as FiNe too?
Also, @staas what do you think of Marina after my .DOC writeup, does NeTi make sense to you? And what do you think of the queen?
 

Spoiler

edit:
By the way, for those whose scores have been negatively changed due to the revising of the very criteria of comparison — i.e. ash, rondo, heresy, becks (85%) — your original is still your appropriate score. It was my fault for providing a non-representative video of Bart Ehrman, and you guys did actually get it right by the same standard I was gauging “right” from too.
Sorry for providing sub-optimal videos! What we’re doing right now is a bit of post-quiz investigations as to what the overall reality may be, but the quiz proper is concluded. Post-hoc alterations don’t count towards the quiz outcomes.

[collapse]

[Juan E. Sandoval]

By the way, for those whose scores have been negatively changed due to the revising of the very criteria of comparison -- i.e. ash, rondo, heresy, becks (85%) -- your original is still your appropriate score. It was my fault for providing a non-representative video of Bart Ehrman, and you guys did actually get it right by the same standard I was gauging "right" from too.
Sorry for providing sub-optimal videos! What we're doing right now is a bit of post-quiz investigations as to what the overall reality may be, but the quiz proper is concluded. Post-hoc alterations don't count towards the quiz outcomes.

[bella]

Thanks @Auburn !
Umm.. I can try making a case for the queen..
So at first glance before checking anything I thought I was seeing JeSi, with Te being more likely than Fe in terms of qualia/vibe..
Then I noticed:
1. She has Ji 'elegant' rigid posture
2. Little use of hands in general, and when she does they are closer to her body (it's hard to say how many of her gestures are toned down due to being expected of a certain etiquette)

3. In her younger videos she seems more soft and feminine in her energy. Not very conductor:


4. Her younger self has more Ji disengagements:

5. Fi tension - I was unsure if it was there or not, and her smile does seem more Fe 'to the sides'. However, there did appear to be some pull/tension even in her smile (although in later age I couldn't tell if that due to the botox lol)


note: this is in a specific video, whereas in others I haven't seen as much of this, and in many videos I could barely catch anything like this^..
6. Psychology - she does a lot of charity work, especially work with dementia and the care of the elderly
*comparisons:
Her older self seemed to have less Ne, and she reminded me a bit of FiNe Arianna Huffington who also has less of a typical FiNe energy.  However, Silvia doesn't seem to have as much use of hands and more Te.. She also reminded me a bit of Ingrid Betacourt, although granted the comparison is not one on one..

so... maybe the queen might actually be a princess? 🙂

[Bera]

OMG, @bella, your view is so similar to what I thought I saw too !
I will post my arguments below because it's really funny, as if we had talked about her typing. 🙂 I thought she is FiNe I-II, similar to Joan Baez.

Queen Silvia was the hardest for me and I can very well be wrong. At some point I couldn’t tell either of her axes and compared her to a lot of people on the site.
Because in the video you gave us she is standing and is moving a lot but she still gave me the overall impression or an Fi lead, without me being able to say why though, I looked for other videos. Especially videos of her when she was younger, since I find it more difficult to type older people.

Now here she looks like a seelie delta reviser. The Si deer in headlights look is identifiable, I think. The area around the eyes is relaxed. The eyes are big, round and innocent looking. She has a snarling smile and is pretty giddy and bashful, I think.
Now to determine if she is J or P lead…

I think this shows she has a rigid posture and her hand movements are small and close to the body, softly demonstrative, combined with some Ji meticulousness. Her snippy head nods and general decisiveness seem to indicate developed Te under an Fi baseline. I think the slowing down of the Te moves comes from Si being conscious.
I think the closest to her is Joan Baez. They have very similar voices, very similar tempo and hand movements, if you put them side by side using the app.
Te development probably helped her becoming a militant for the protection of sexually abused children.
I also saw her talking very nicely about her family and her husband’s ancestry, which made me think of her at least valuing Si.
It starts at 0:46…she explains who was the lady in the painting.


I think here she has the fixed gaze with dulled eyes and a bit of inertia.

Now I have no idea if this is actually correct but I wanted to post it because of the similarity to what you saw. We also watched some of the same videos. 🙂

[Aletheia]

*crashes the party!!* @.@ ;D
I know I didn't participate in the quiz.. but I wanted to put in my 2 cents about the Queen bc I think I see something! So one thing that's important to keep in mind is she's someone who has undergone *tons* of etiquette training in her life! 😮 She was born into a royal family, so her whole presentation is effected by that upbringing/culture. From what I know about etiquette, it emphasizes what they call 'grace' - like walking/sitting with a rigid, delicate posture, intentionally holding one's teacup, etc. My thought about this is that the Queen *is* infact FeSi, actually with conscious Ne bc I see her perk-up when she emphasizes a lot, but she has developed her Ti and a persona that mimics Ji traits overall. She comes across very soft like an Fi-lead would bc of this..
Does that make sense?

[Juan E. Sandoval]

In other words: not sure if Ji Princess Energy... or actually a princess.

[Aletheia]

@auburn - lol! Well put XD
I don't see her energy as actually being Ji tho. She has too much oomph! If that makes sense? I know several FeSi irl with 3 or 4 functions conscious. The III- dev can seem a lot like NeTi, the IIII dev can be super confusing and in certain moments even look like SiFe or TiNe with conscious Si o.0 But what always tips off their Je-leadness is the degree of energy behind their gesticulations, and how their composure comes across. What I see in the Queen is she is subdued by having both introverted functions conscious, but that articulator energy still comes through.. you can see it in her face, she's *on*, her extroversion is engaged in the environment, giving her a lot more 'presence' than a Ji-lead would have. Also she picks up into articulation quickly and easily compared to how a Ji-lead would struggle, despite an introverted containment of posture and elongation of expressions, she's still dynamic and snappy!
/rambley-ramble

[Bera]

I love this idea, @alerith - but actually Queen Silvia was not born and raised in a royal family. From the wikipedia article about her :

Silvia Renate Sommerlath was born in Heidelberg, Germany, on 23 December 1943,[1] the only daughter of Alice (née Soares de Toledo) and Walther Sommerlath. Her father was German and her mother was Brazilian.
(...)
During the 1972 Summer Olympics where she was employed as a hostess, Silvia Sommerlath met Crown Prince Carl Gustaf. In a later interview, the King explained how it just "clicked" when they met. After the death of King Gustaf VI Adolf on 15 September 1973, Carl XVI Gustaf succeeded to the throne.
He and Silvia announced their engagement on 12 March 1976 and were married three months later, on 19 June in Stockholm Cathedral ("Storkyrkan Cathedral") in Stockholm.[5]

Now...the first gif I posted was from that period when she married her husband, I think right after the wedding...? Not sure.
I am sure she learned the basics of acting in a quiet, elegant and composed way before the wedding and kept practicing afterwards, but I think it is relevant that she was not raised as a princess. Her dad was president of a Brazilian subsidiary of  a Swedish company...basically a business man.
But then...she would have had time to prepare in those 4 years between the day she met her future husband and the wedding...which is also a point to consider. 🙂

[Aletheia]

ah! @bera thank you for catching me in that error, lol exposing mah unconscious Si ;p
Clearly I need to pay more attention to historical research!
I would still argue the same point yeah. Like you mention, she likely was integrated into the royal ways of doing things before they actually got married. But it could've even been before that.. is there anything about the lifestyle she was living during her upbringing? If her dad was a successful businessman, she still could have been influenced by the etiquette of high-society.. maybe not, I could be wrong overall and wasting my mobile data on irrelevant posts! >,< Unfortunately right now I don't have time for research, at a party with some dear friends who are probably starting to feel ignored! >.>
 
 

[Anonymous]

@auburn

The truth may be somewhere in the middle of us all.

That is why collective typing can be a better option (gotta "sell" the idea again since it seems relevant here ?). The principle is that the "average" of all the typings will be much closer to the truth, than one single typing. I know those features aren't yet in the reading app, but I think that is going to make such a big difference, especially, for example, if the "crowd" is not just random people who lack any knowledge of the vultology code, but learned vultology practitioners (say, Stass, Bera, Bella and you all used the reading app to type Queen Silvia (based only on two videos) and averaged all the results). Now that would really reach a level of accuracy that can be measured (what is her type most likely as a percentage), instead of guessing what her true type may be by other means, like looking into her past (which, while interesting, defeats the point of having an objective metric in the first place).

[sekundaer]

My first thought when I saw Silvia was Fe, but noticed things that didnt fit with Fe-lead, the same things that is mentioned in the thread: the lack of hand movements although much movement of the head, that she keeps her hand close to the body, that ‘elegant’ rigid posture, meticulousness, disengagements, and also stop-start articulation (I think this is not so obvious when she speaks German because words can be dragged out instead of having an abrupt stop).
So I played with the idea that the obvious Fe was due to Ti with developed adaptive Fe.
To me the many perk-ups could just as well be Se perk-ups, and I cannot see that she has slanting edges....to me they look raised. Her eyes are rather locked on and there is what I see as pointed eye-toggling when she moves her eyes (there is never that brushstroke searching for the answer, there is one time where she looks up for the answer to a little too personal question and even there her eyes goes up to a single point and down again ( at 6:33 - excuse me, its late and I have only short time so I cant make GIFs....).
Try to look at these two together at a split screen:
https://cognitivetype.com/forums/topic/vultology-quiz-3-5-celebrity-samples/page/3/
http://cognitivetype.net/s/TiSe_Zoe_Saldana_1.mp4
BTW they talk about the same and express the same attitude.
(Zoo have developed Se also, but if one subtract that, I think they come pretty close.

[Nymph]

@scientiam @auburn My method was similar to Adrian's. I tend to look for who someone is at their essence, so I really only used vultological signals to give me an inclination. I get caught up in the meaning of what they are saying as a way of me gaining clarity on what type they are.

[Author]

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