Uncompressed/Compressed & Double-E/I

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  • #16290
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Another Discord discussion which I think might be of broader interest to some here?

    Spoiler

    very similar vibes, strong Pe Momentum +Te Avalanching.
    There is this concept I've been mulling over that double extroversion is like "uncompressed" consciousness. It's as though there's an immediacy between thoughts and words, and the person is thinking in real-time. The uncompressed quality makes it so everything is worked out as it happens, including the confusions, questions, assertions, rethinkings... it's all right there. And the opposite is true with double introversion which seems like the most "compressed" form of consciousness, where it's like a zip file that crunches together the information into compact forms. The Uncompressed nature of double extroversion makes it so there's a lot of volume/inflation and less density per unit, while double introversion makes it so there's higher density per unit, but less volume. So the same idea may have been mulled over internally ten times, and compressed into a sentence, rather than decompressed into two paragraphs.

    (This distinction makes no claim as to who is more right or clever, or which method works best, but it's a difference in method, certainly)
    (i'm still mulling over this though, but i thought it might be relevant given the recent discussion)

    thats a cool idea. and funny that u should bring it up. im having to spend 500milliontimes longer writing out my thoughts (or anything i wish to say) lately. what a drag

    I'm back because rhings
    thing
    s
    1) the 'OP typing video' where you say I was rigid and stiff - adhd meds
    the rest - no meds
    er
    definitely not in the car things

    i imagine the most "double extro" individuals would have the least compression, but finding people who have two integrated extraverted function doesn't mean that they all will demonstrate the absolute maximum of "decompressed" functioning - some will still be more/less compressed than others

    second, OP typed Joe Rogan as ENTJ jumper (Te-Se)

    I've said this before here, stimulants make ppl look more J heavy

    Third, what Aubs said about (paraphrasing) processing in the moment is SPOT ON
    I don't think I'm massively extroverted though - I spend a lot of time in my head. Not really doing anything in there, just exploring what I believe to be an 'N inner world'
    but
    people tell me
    when you get me chatting about something I have passion for
    I basically light up and steamroll the fuck out of the room

    I'm of the opinion that individuals who lack the saturation of signals needed for the 'I'mark can still exhibit energetic qualities of those functions, but its something like a flower still in maturation

    So basically going off what Aubs said, I do not use any compression software, but introverts are all up on Winrar
    cool
    checks out

    right @Heresy , i'm only describing the extremes above. mhm

    [collapse]
    #16292
    Celeste
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    I like that we're using terms such as double extroverted/introverted for certain individuals, and I think we should apply this way of nicknaming developments to other ones such as J(PP) (double perceiver?), P(JJ) (double judger?) and II-- (maybe ambivert?).

    #16296
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    @celeste - mhm, i don't know what we'll naturally land on but i've been calling them:
    l--- = standard development
    ll-- = pure reviser, pure conductor
    l-l- = double extroverted, double introverted
    l--l = polarized P-lead, polarized J-lead
    lll- = J-heavy, P-heavy
    ll-l = double extroverted introvert, double introverted extrovert
    l-ll = inverted development
    llll = four function conscious
     
    some of these could surely use some shortening

    #16298
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    A related snippet, with Doc's (FeSi l-l-) permission:

    Spoiler

    I learn best by watching someone else do the skill.
    They almost don't even need to explain it to me.
    If I can be around someone doing it, I get it.
    Doesn't work as well watching a video, but still works.
    I call it learning by osmosis.
    I'm very visual spatial.

    nice
    that makes sense to me

    But, once I hit a wall on that, then my go to is asking questions.
    I've always had trouble reading.
    I just zone out.
    Have to read the same lines over and over.

    that's actually in line with what CT has seen of double-extroverted developments. one thing we see is a very dynamic, rapid-pace conversational preference and a frustration with things like slow.. reading or overly detailed stuff

    Yeah
    In OP, they keyed in on me being a double extrovert pretty quick.

    another thing we've seen in CT with double extroverts is what i sorta call "uncompressed" consciousness, where the person thinks as they talk, or talks as they think -- so that their consciousness is "out there" for you in real-time, as it happens. this causes it to be uncompressed, so.. discussion is very much a process of working it out in the present.
    the opposite, "compressed" consciousness (double introverts) often focus on 'density', to where the thoughts are compacted into very heavy meaning-per-sentence.
    the Je+Pe combo has a long winded way of saying the same thing
    because it's uncompressed, so it's all [there]

    Yeah, that resonates.
    I also do this thing that is hard to explain, but I need to sort of just stare at something for a while to get it. I glance over the little details and start slowly forming this sort of mental map of understanding and then the whole picture eventually snaps into being. I then do this a bunch of times with the smaller parts and a bigger picture will snap into being.
    My guess on this is that I'm subconsciously doing the inward density.

    Like, it just has to happen on its own for me.

    [collapse]
    #16303
    Celeste
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    I relate to everything Doc has said, even the part where he mentions having to read the same line over and over -darned Ne- haha.
    Thanks for sharing, here's a little section that I want to focus on since it caught my attention:

    another thing we’ve seen in CT with double extroverts is what I sorta call “uncompressed” consciousness, where the person thinks as they talk, or talks as they think — so that their consciousness is “out there” for you in real-time, as it happens. this causes it to be uncompressed, so.. discussion is very much a process of working it out in the present.

    Last month I started noticing a little habit that I didn't have before Te was brought into consciousness and is one that funnily enough, causes me to be extremely embarrassed if anyone sees me doing it.
    More often than not, I just walk around my house or towards my local grocery store and think out loud things that I've done/experience/or would like to discuss or have a conversation about, like a movie that I’ve seen, food that I need to buy or a recent topic that I’m interested in. This sort of externalized-internal-dialogue, that I do to give shape to my thoughts, occurs while I wave my hands around like a lunatic as If I were talking or debating with someone even though I might be completely alone.
    Prior to all of this, I could stay still, calm and talk as much as I wanted without having to be so expressive, nowadays I can barely form a sentence without gesticulating or going through a rapid rant that is mostly unintentional.
    Although, I have to mention that most of those gestures and thoughts are clamped down and refined by Ji, so they’re not as "uncompressed" as I would like them to be.
    *I do think it's there! still waiting for your response on this matter.

    #16304
    EpicEntity
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    @auburn this may or may not lead to something.
    l— = purifier
    ll– = pure reviser, pure conductor
    l-l- = pure extrovert, pure introvert
    l–l = pure judger, pure perceiver
    lll- = judge heavy, perceive heavy
    ll-l = external heavy, internal heavy
    l-ll = revise heavy,  conduct heavy
    llll = spread heavy
    Edit: I'm not trying to come off insensitive. I just seem to like spending all day super simplifying things. I've been editing this post for hours. Like sharping diamonds forever.






    #16310
    GreenCoyote
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Pretty neat stuff. Im currently trying to figure out how to have Fe conscious. The SeTi 1-1- seem like the most well adjusted in my opinion.

    #16311
    Faeruss
    Participant
    • Type: FeNi
    • Development: llll
    • Attitude: Directive

    I understand where you are coming from @greencoyote, butI would caution against the notion that a particular development, SeTi l-l- in this case, is the most well adjusted. It might be the most well adjusted to a given life/situation, but I doubt it would be so for all situations/contexts. Also, to harp on my usual stuff, beware anyone telling you there is something with only benefits and no drawbacks. There is always a trade-off: such is life under the sun. We should always ask ourselves, what is the dark side of this? What are we giving up to gain this? We often fall into thinking that if there is a benefit to be had, it's worth having: we are maximalists of benefit. But we overlook the costs, we seek benefit, yes, but at what costs? 
     
    To give a salient example from social media, most people would argue that using Facebook gives them some benefit, some of the time, and so, they continue using it. Perhaps they get 10 minutes a week of benefit, at the investment of 200 minutes a week. The cost they pay is not commensurate with the benefit, and few would continue in such a deal once they realise the costs involved.

    #16321
    EpicEntity
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    caution against the notion that a particular development, SeTi l-l- in this case, is the most well adjusted.

    Agreed I'd say that my revision for the development titles embody to a degree what Fauress is saying. I'd hope it would give people a sense of what's being lost if they choose to disrupt what is native to them in exchange for what seems to be greater power.

    #16323
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    Right.. when @faeruss was the only person who was typed at IIII, I had the sense that this was an ideal state, but that is just because I like the way his mind works and he seems like a stable, mature, thoughtful person, willing to recheck his opinions, philosophical yet pragmatic, spiritual yet real.  However, I won't name names as it's purely subjective, but there have been other people typed at IIII including celebs - whose maturity and perspective was extremely questionable to me.
    On the other hand, I know some I---'s who are just as brilliant as Faeruss although they are more specialized and less 'well rounded.' Personally I am a specializer in general, despite being III-  and I do value this kind of mindset highly. Sometimes I wish my Fi had never developed - I feel it slowed me down and made me more self conscious and clutzy, less seductive --- then again, it was trauma which caused it to develop, and maybe it was the trauma itself and not the Fi that destroyed things I valued about myself, since the trauma of chronic illness is ongoing.
    I decided after much internal ado, that there's nothing particularly magical about any development.  I am not in a big rush to develop Ni, although I suspect it will happen because my Ni is not weak and it bubbles up adequately.  But I'm not seeing a hierarchy of goodness or intelligence personally. It's all in how you use it.

    #16337
    Faex
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I like your 'double' terms, @celeste! They synchronize nicely with the Double Extro/Intro we're already used to! Double J, Double P are just great IMO.

    Last month I started noticing a little habit that I didn’t have before Te was brought into consciousness and is one that funnily enough, causes me to be extremely embarrassed if anyone sees me doing it.
    More often than not, I just walk around my house or towards my local grocery store and think out loud things that I’ve done/experience/or would like to discuss or have a conversation about, like a movie that I’ve seen, food that I need to buy or a recent topic that I’m interested in. This sort of externalized-internal-dialogue, that I do to give shape to my thoughts, occurs while I wave my hands around like a lunatic as If I were talking or debating with someone even though I might be completely alone.
    Prior to all of this, I could stay still, calm and talk as much as I wanted without having to be so expressive, nowadays I can barely form a sentence without gesticulating or going through a rapid rant that is mostly unintentional.
    Although, I have to mention that most of those gestures and thoughts are clamped down and refined by Ji, so they’re not as “uncompressed” as I would like them to be.
    *I do think it’s there! still waiting for your response on this matter.

    Interesting! What I've found as I've been doing tones of Je (out of necessity, not really deliberately just to develop Je!) lately is that I get my strategic steps/plan of action from externalizing my thinking/brainstorming in someway; Usually, it's in telling someone what I will do (poor mom) but I found a private way to do it that's become pure magic! I just write it out, lol. Bullet point. I don't think about it prior, it's like the mere step of writing down the first basic step opens the part of us that knows how to do things.  It's incredible! I've been able to get my ADD self motivated to do crazy difficult stuff all by myself just by doing this. It's kinda like brainstorming a mind-map for everything, but instead of post-its all over a canvas, it's simple bullets in my journal. It's kinda like a conversation with myself: How do we get here? Then an answer pop. What's the obstacle here? Another answer. And what would we need for this/that? Pop! I love it.
    Like you, my old process was either just jumping in or withdrawing into myself (which I experienced as mystical since it was usually done as a prayer/convo with God).

    #16684
    GreenCoyote
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    @Faex
     
    wow, you do exactly what my sister does. She is SeFi but with a semi conscious Te. Its all white boards and organizing tools. The bullet points sound healthy.
    i get quite sick of hearing my sis impose her own personal schedule/timetable over everyones life. But then again. I will always love her and we have learned to laugh about our differences. I think Te also brings great money management skills. Which id KILL for lol

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