[Pi] How do you relate to this profile?
March 22, 2020

Home Forums Ask a Demographic [Pi] How do you relate to this profile?

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #18469
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Hello,
    Here is a second draft of the Pi l--- energetics, after some feedback last night from Discord discussions. You can combine this profile with its function components here: https://cognitivetype.com/profiler/ to get a better picture of the full profile of your type.
    I'm hoping to hear whether our Pi-lead members can relate to it ( @eric @hrafn @spirit_of_the_gael @mephisto @q @tberg @gust etc). Please let me know your thoughts!
     

    Pi l---

    As an [NiTe/NiFe/SiTe/SiFe] you are a Worldview type – inescapably drawn to observe the world from a panoramic historical perspective, aiming to understand the essential narratives, events and movements that define the state of the world, whether at the local or global level. You aim to understand the process involved in technological or cultural shifts from one thing to another and you formulate long information chains that link together these shifts by their mutual associations. Over time this will prompt an internal landscape to arise in you that is created from these datasets, allowing you to elaborate on the conditions surrounding a given event or situation with exhaustive breadth. In conversations, this can cause you to drift into long monologues, unraveling a topic and all of its associated information in order to paint a complete picture of what you see.
    This exhaustive array of facts will inescapably make you an anticipator of outcomes, for better or worse. Your memorized archive of changes across time will guide you to take the long-term view, manifesting in an appreciation for historical consequences. And because of your internal map of the local or global landscape, you’ll inevitably uncover trends that you sense will lead to hazards or disasters. While others may be quick to propose naïve solutions to immediate problems, you constantly ask yourself "how would this affect the overall landscape in the long term?" and your breadth of information will supply the material from which to wager probabilities and cast predictions. Thus, you tend to have a level of prudence about you, independent of your age. You are generally a cautious person with conservative tendencies, and you notice warning signs quickly.
    Sometimes the warnings you identify are connected to large institutions and social bodies. When this happens, your attention may turn to those in power and what they’re doing wrong in their leadership. This will direct your investigation into the details of the political structures of society, such as their foundational documents, the circumstances of their creation, their core doctrines and how they progressed into their current states. You sense that society needs to have a wiser approach to its operation, and a tradition of teaching in general, if it’s to thrive. To this effect, you like offering guidance and are worried whenever there is no mechanism of guidance in place for society. This is part of your motivation for criticizing politics, as you want them to lead with wisdom. The institutions that we trust with our lives should be dependable, and you see the devastating effects that would result if this isn’t addressed.
    But your own involvement in politics will be minor, as you feel you’d be of greater service as a commentator than as an actor on the political stage itself. While you may have a lot to say about the societal situations, in day to day life you have a phlegmatic and lethargic disposition. You are slow, lumbering and steady – prone to drift through datasets in a meandering fashion. You spend your time attending to matters of personal necessity while remaining ever watchful, perhaps woeful, of the situation outside your window. Yet, being so inclined to look out the window with cautious eyes, your relationship to the spontaneous present will be stunted. People may see you as stiff and may encourage you to loosen up more, to let go of inhibitions or take things easier. Getting into a state of playfulness and innocent flow will be a challenge for you, as doing risky things that require no forethought may seem frivolous and foolish. Yet despite whatever conscious critique you may feel for such frivolity, there will be a secret, perhaps unconscious, envy in you towards those who are blissfully carefree and unburdened by thoughts of the future. Your unconscious may view this missing facet, which can experience a direct contact with life and is able to exist without fear, as a spiritual aspiration within you. Locked within your prudence and maturity is a youthful purity and readiness to just “be.” In rare occasions, this facet will come out of you in episodes of uninhibited play that remind you once again what the purpose of your precautions is for in the first place; it’s for the preservation of the ability to live.

    #18471
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    To give a sense of how the energetics are interwoven together in this profile, we can approximate them roughly as…

    • Gold = Pi
    • Green = Je
    • Blue = Pe
    • Red = Ji

    #18472
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Also, since we have so few Pi l--- types on the forum, and most of our Pi members are of non-standard developments, I'd also like to hear from other members -- to see if they don't resonate with it.
    One of my aims, in preparation for speaking to a more public audience, is to clear up the confusion that our CT Revisers experience by typing as "INTJ" and "INFJ" in other systems then associating that to Pi-lead in CT. It's especially common in Ji-lead types and so I want to really differentiate out Ji-leads from Pi-leads if possible, so there's no confusion in the transition process.
    I think if our Reviser members relate to parts of this profile it should really be from a Pi development. So I'm hoping I can iron out this profile, with your feedback, to get it to that point if it's not already there. Thank you!

    #18477
    LadyNerdsky
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    As one of the Ji-leads who thought they were INTJ and related to the first Pi profile, below is what is still relatable to me. I think the sticking point for me is that only the Ni (Pi) profile has explicit reference to being predictive in nature. I thought Ne was broadly capable of doing the same. All the issues I have below relate to being someone who does intuit trends, outcomes and consequences often and accurately, and it's a big part of my experience, but there's nothing about that captured in Pe I or JiPe II profiles.

    “an anticipator of outcomes, for better or worse”

    Part of believing I had Ni was the amount of claircognizance I experience. While out in the world I predict what will happen next with regular accuracy. Predictions just pop into my head as "true" from nowhere, as in, I’m not conscious of working out the logical steps to arrive at my conclusion, or actively sitting down to strategize or brainstorm potential scenarios. I somehow leap straight to the most likely result and work backwards to figure out how I arrived there.
    BUT, where I distinguish this from Pi as written here, is my predictions involve people and situations unfolding directly in front of me. I’m not forecasting where entire social or political movements are heading. It’s on a micro-level with individuals, small groups, and small events (e.g predicting driver movements on the road). And I need data and immersion in an experience to do this well. The more opportunity I’ve had to interact with a person or experience a situation, even remotely from behind a screen, the better I can predict next-steps.
    In NeJi I and JiNe II there’s nothing about Ne’s predictive ability in the profile. The focus is on whimsical trans-contextual thinking, and expressing reality via an art form. (These parts of Ne are also what decrease my level of personal resonance to Ne over Ni).

    “uncover trends that you sense will lead to hazards or disasters … long-term view … appreciation for consequences … cautious person … prudence … notice warning signs quickly”.

    Same issues as above. Very relatable but using potentially different mechanisms to arrive at the perception of trouble and likely consequences. And not focusing on broad world and/or societal issues, but on an individual/social group/family/organisation level.

    “ [not] proposing naive solutions to immediate problems [but asking about] long-term effects … wager probabilities and cast predictions”

    Ne + Te working together?

    “People may see you as stiff and may encourage you to loosen up more, to let go of inhibitions or take things easier. Getting into a state of playfulness and innocent flow will be a challenge for you, as doing risky things that require no forethought may seem frivolous and foolish”.

    THIS. I assume this is written as a counterpoint to unconscious Se/Ne. Except I have Ne conscious (maybe I don’t and I’m gonna lose a stick?) and still meet this description. I relate more to the seriousness and gravity of Ni than the silly, playful, meme-like, surreal descriptions of Ne. And being judge-y of people I think are inane and frivolous.

    #18479
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    ahhh thanks for pitching in @ladynerdsky!

    Part of believing I had Ni was the amount of claircognizance I experience. While out in the world I predict what will happen next with regular accuracy. Predictions just pop into my head as “true” from nowhere, as in, I’m not conscious of working out the logical steps to arrive at my conclusion, or actively sitting down to strategize or brainstorm potential scenarios. I somehow leap straight to the most likely result and work backwards to figure out how I arrived there.
    BUT, where I distinguish this from Pi as written here, is my predictions involve people and situations unfolding directly in front of me. I’m not forecasting where entire social or political movements are heading. It’s on a micro-level with individuals, small groups, and small events (e.g predicting driver movements on the road). And I need data and immersion in an experience to do this well. The more opportunity I’ve had to interact with a person or experience a situation, even remotely from behind a screen, the better I can predict next-steps.

    Yes ^ this is part of the MBTI version of 'Ni', which correlates it to general hunches and intuitions, allowing them to be more real-time. However, you hit it right on the head: in CT Ni is much more professorial/academic (ish) and the kind of anticipations it has are more like.. methodical prognoses of the world from a long accumulation of information spread across years.
    The thing you describe fits much more with the Ne section titled "Serendipity & Flash Visions", which describes Ne's epiphanic sense:

    "Suddenly a vision may flash before their eyes, stitched together from hundreds of unconscious micro-correlations accumulated around this moment; converging into one instance in time. This can lead to a semblance of clairvoyance where the Ne user attains some knowledge into the unseen causalities of the universe. They may come to deeply trust this sense, whenever they feel it manifest. However, these sudden flashes will not represent a stable ability and their appearance will be as unpredictable as their own inspiration. "

    But unfortunately this epiphanic nature of Ne's clairvoyance/claircognizance is actually directly baked into MBTI-'Ni' profiles. Ayayai! ..And I think this is an artifact of mistyped JiNe's NeJi's typing as Ni in those systems.
    But anyhow, I think I feel okay with the phrase "an anticipator of outcomes, for better or worse" since it's embedded within the sentence: "This exhaustive array of facts will inescapably make you an anticipator of outcomes". When read holistically, it should be clear that we're not describing a contextual/situational claircognizance, but a historical awareness.
    That said, I can see how the lack of this Ne ^ component from the JiNe profiles may compel people to look for an analogous anticipatory sense somewhere such as here. I will see whether there's a way to integrate this Ne aspect into the Ji profiles, or if it may have to be inferred from the full Ne profile.

    Same issues as above. Very relatable but using potentially different mechanisms to arrive at the perception of trouble and likely consequences. And not focusing on broad world and/or societal issues, but on an individual/social group/family/organisation level.

    Right. Though, again I think I'm going to have to depend on people not taking things out of context. Relating to one half of a sentence is something I don't know how to really counteract if the point is contingent on the other half. As noted, it's framed on a panoramic/world level. But if I come up with a way to weed this out, I'll definitely try it out.

    Ne + Te working together?

    (Hmm..)

    THIS. I assume this is written as a counterpoint to unconscious Se/Ne. Except I have Ne conscious (maybe I don’t and I’m gonna lose a stick?) and still meet this description. I relate more to the seriousness and gravity of Ni than the silly, playful, meme-like, surreal descriptions of Ne. And being judge-y of people I think are inane and frivolous.

    Heh! Yes if you notice my own type tag has shifted to l--l. As I was writing these profiles I realized I don't have Pe conscious like other samples do. It takes either a very specific mood or some good ol' wine to loosen me up. Ji leads are rather rigid and judgy by default.
    I do wonder how you'll relate to the Ji l--l profile, and I can't wait to put that one forward. It might also solve the question of "Ne+Te" you had above, as I think conscious Je does add an appreciation  for causality and consequences too. But it's from a more discrete cause-effect (Je) diagnostic (Ji), than from a place of reading historical inertia, if that makes sense. (:

    #18484
    Shelley Lorraine
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I'll try to get some feedback from my two Pi l--- relatives (father and brother, both SiTe l---). From my second-hand perspective, I don't see either of them as stiff or unplayful. Quite the contrary! My father is a real wise guy, easy to be around, playful, though he does fit the phlegmatic disposition in his overall presentation. He always looks physically at ease wherever he is. When he sits in a chair, he makes it look like it's always been his special chair. My brother comes across initially as more stiff in presentation, but he presents this stiffness in a purposefully dry-humor sort of way that I wouldn't mistake for lack of playfulness. Both are or have been into xtreme outdoor sports, engaging in what I perceive as risky behavior, though they may see it differently. My father, for example, used to ski out of bounds in his younger days, one time injuring himself so badly that he had to cancel the rest of his trip. My brother has sky dived, rock climbed, and routinely hikes alone into dangerous territory.
    I'll, hopefully, see what they have to say about it for themselves

    #18489
    Shelley Lorraine
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    got a bit of feedback from my Pi l--- bro. He's not fond of typing labels and usually avoids discussing typology with me, but he humored me this one time:

    [the] document is more-or-less accurate except for the taking foolish risks part. My life has been defined by doing dumb shit w/o thinking it through first. That’s the ADHD part of me, the only semi-accurate label I've ever been given.

     

    #18493
    Eric
    Participant
    • Type: TeSi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    As an [NiTe/NiFe/SiTe/SiFe] you are a Worldview type – inescapably drawn to observe the world from a panoramic historical perspective, aiming to understand the essential narratives, events and movements that define the state of the world, whether at the local or global level. You aim to understand the process involved in technological or cultural shifts from one thing to another and you formulate long information chains that link together these shifts by their mutual associations

     
    Correct. Understand the process, understand the whole. Divergent behavior/events require additional attention and are wholly interesting.
     

    Over time this will prompt an internal landscape to arise in you that is created from these datasets, allowing you to elaborate on the conditions surrounding a given event or situation with exhaustive breadth.

     
    Id.

     
    In conversations, this can cause you to drift into long monologues, unraveling a topic and all of its associated information in order to paint a complete picture of what you see.

     
    Not something I do. Shelley may describe this better than I can, however, I have two types of thought and description. My formal prepared commentary, versus my unprepared off the cuff commentary. The former is well organized, while the latter can sometimes be described as a verbal unloading void of any organization.

     
    This exhaustive array of facts will inescapably make you an anticipator of outcomes, for better or worse. Your memorized archive of changes across time will guide you to take the long-term view, manifesting in an appreciation for historical consequences. And because of your internal map of the local or global landscape, you’ll inevitably uncover trends that you sense will lead to hazards or disasters. While others may be quick to propose naïve solutions to immediate problems, you constantly ask yourself “how would this affect the overall landscape in the long term?” and your breadth of information will supply the material from which to wager probabilities and cast predictions.

     
    Correct as above. I'm frequently view to portray events around me as formulaic.

     
    Thus, you tend to have a level of prudence about you, independent of your age. You are generally a cautious person with conservative tendencies, and you notice warning signs quickly.

     
    Generally yes. This easily seen in my sticking to things I'm comfortable with, ordering the same thing every time, or not being interested in new or novel things. Shelley frequently has to introduce me to the new things.
     
    Re: Warning signs - Yes. Id at formulaic.

     
    Sometimes the warnings you identify are connected to large institutions and social bodies. When this happens, your attention may turn to those in power and what they’re doing wrong in their leadership. This will direct your investigation into the details of the political structures of society, such as their foundational documents, the circumstances of their creation, their core doctrines and how they progressed into their current states. You sense that society needs to have a wiser approach to its operation, and a tradition of teaching in general, if it’s to thrive. To this effect, you like offering guidance and are worried whenever there is no mechanism of guidance in place for society. This is part of your motivation for criticizing politics, as you want them to lead with wisdom. The institutions that we trust with our lives should be dependable, and you see the devastating effects that would result if this isn’t addressed.

     
    Absolutely.

     
    But your own involvement in politics will be minor, as you feel you’d be of greater service as a commentator than as an actor on the political stage itself. While you may have a lot to say about the societal situations, in day to day life you have a phlegmatic and lethargic disposition. You are slow, lumbering and steady – prone to drift through datasets in a meandering fashion. You spend your time attending to matters of personal necessity while remaining ever watchful, perhaps woeful, of the situation outside your window.

     
    Not me. I've got a significant interest in politics, though I sometimes believe I lack the charismatic bravado to hold babies, shake thousand hands, make numerous promises. That would be physically exhausting. I'm particularly drawn to the decision making component, less so to the socialization aspect. I do not want to be a wormtongue, whispering in to the ear of the king, rather, I would relish the feeling of power and be the king. It would be entirety more efficient that way without relying upon others figure out my counsel.

     
    Yet, being so inclined to look out the window with cautious eyes, your relationship to the spontaneous present will be stunted. People may see you as stiff and may encourage you to loosen up more, to let go of inhibitions or take things easier. Getting into a state of playfulness and innocent flow will be a challenge for you, as doing risky things that require no forethought may seem frivolous and foolish.

     
    Yep. I'm not a risk taker. Everything I do generally is planned. When I don't plan or think carefully, bad things happen. I'm not playful.

     
    Yet despite whatever conscious critique you may feel for such frivolity, there will be a secret, perhaps unconscious, envy in you towards those who are blissful carefree and unburdened by thoughts of the future. Your unconscious may view this missing facet, which can experience a direct contact with life and is able to exist without fear, as a spiritual aspiration within you. Locked within your prudence and maturity is a youthful purity and readiness to just “be.” In rare occasions, this facet will come out of you in episodes of uninhibited play that remind you once again what the purpose of your precautions is for in the first place; it’s for the preservation of the ability to live.

     
    Not at all me. I can't even dance when no one is looking. Moreover, I don't really want to. There's no envy towards other's who have blissful carefree thoughts and are unburdened by the future. I look at them and think of them as simple lemmings.

    #18496
    Shelley Lorraine
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    It's interesting that @eric has conscious Ne, yet describes himself as not playful, and not jealous of those who are more carefree, while my two Pi l--- examples come across as significantly more carefree and less "stiff" to me. I'm guessing it's the Te adding more of the stiffness, but still curious about how the Ne factors in here.
    possibly of interest - I see myself as more planned and prepared, in general, than Eric, at least on a small scale. While he is looking at grand worldview stuff, I am looking up parking availability and other useful info before we go out to new places. Before we married, it was I giving him an "I told you so," when he didn't make hotel reservations and we found ourselves driving around looking for lodging late into the night.

    There’s no envy towards other’s who have blissful carefree thoughts and are unburdened by the future. I look at them and think of them as simple lemmings.

    heeey, I am one of these blissful sorts who sing in the shower and doesn't concern myself too much with politics. You say you very much appreciate the element of play that I contribute to the relationship. Perhaps you were in a temporary grumpy frame of mind while writing your post. ;p

    ... Understand the process, understand the whole. Divergent behavior/events require additional attention and are wholly interesting.

    To add an example: I was talking with Eric about philosophy and recommending a text I had read by a contemporary philosopher. He said he had little interest in modern philosophy because he knows the old stuff and expects it all the be variations of a theme.

    #18497
    Eric
    Participant
    • Type: TeSi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    heeey, I am one of these blissful sorts who sing in the shower and doesn’t concern myself too much with politics. You say you very much appreciate the element of play that I contribute to the relationship. Perhaps you were in a temporary grumpy frame of mind while writing your post. ;p

    You're not blissfully simple. You don't wilfully follow the herd just because everyone else does. You're informed. You choose to not involve yourself in the ails of the world, but you're informed of them. You're complicated, but a disney kid at heart.

    He said he had little interest in modern philosophy because he knows the old stuff and expects it all the be variations of a theme.

    This.

    #18500
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @Auburn
    Aside from human universal stuff, like being interested in themes that drive the world, I would never read this and think I relate to it.  I do see my Pi friends in it, so from my POV it's well done. 🙂 I'm curious what they will feel.
    I've been on the receiving end of Pi critiques quite a bit - including Pi lash-outs =,) -  and I've had some of them admit there was envy behind it for reasons along the lines of what you write here, in addition to real critique. So I actually know this happens from first-hand experience:

    Yet despite whatever conscious critique you may feel for such frivolity, there will be a secret, perhaps unconscious, envy in you towards those who are blissful carefree and unburdened by thoughts of the future. Your unconscious may view this missing facet, which can experience a direct contact with life and is able to exist without fear, as a spiritual aspiration within you. Locked within your prudence and maturity is a youthful purity and readiness to just “be.” In rare occasions, this facet will come out of you in episodes of uninhibited play that remind you once again what the purpose of your precautions is for in the first place; it’s for the preservation of the ability to live.

     

    #18506
    EpicEntity
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    Pi Profile Brake-Down Questionnaire
    https://forms.gle/Gj5V2wibEeqX26Fu7


    #18513
    Thana
    Participant
    • Type: NiTe
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    I'm Pi III- rather than I--- but I wanted to share my thoughts.

    As an [NiTe/NiFe/SiTe/SiFe] you are a Worldview type – inescapably drawn to observe the world from a panoramic historical perspective, aiming to understand the essential narratives, events and movements that define the state of the world, whether at the local or global level. You aim to understand the process involved in technological or cultural shifts from one thing to another and you formulate long information chains that link together these shifts by their mutual associations. Over time this will prompt an internal landscape to arise in you that is created from these datasets, allowing you to elaborate on the conditions surrounding a given event or situation with exhaustive breadth. In conversations, this can cause you to drift into long monologues, unraveling a topic and all of its associated information in order to paint a complete picture of what you see.

    This is true of a lot of Pi doms I’ve encountered, including myself. My interests are more towards philosophical, mystery, mystic/occultic traditions than politics (a reference further down the description). What I do is integrate these systems into an ever evolving and cohesive worldview. Or what I do is if I’m commenting on a topic, I typically integrate seemingly disparate topics together in order to get to the main point. For example, I’m currently doing research and writing an essay on decadence culture and the topics it pools from are polyvocal - aesthetics a la Nietzsche, Adorno, Hegel, and Kant. Some Foucault, religious experiences as laid out by William James, and the meaning crisis. All these topics are combined to convey the zeitgeist we live in.

    This exhaustive array of facts will inescapably make you an anticipator of outcomes, for better or worse. Your memorized archive of changes across time will guide you to take the long-term view, manifesting in an appreciation for historical consequences. And because of your internal map of the local or global landscape, you’ll inevitably uncover trends that you sense will lead to hazards or disasters. While others may be quick to propose naïve solutions to immediate problems, you constantly ask yourself “how would this affect the overall landscape in the long term?” and your breadth of information will supply the material from which to wager probabilities and cast predictions. Thus, you tend to have a level of prudence about you, independent of your age. You are generally a cautious person with conservative tendencies, and you notice warning signs quickly.

    This is mostly true. This is a minor anecdotal point but it’s less about having an archive of facts in my arsenal more so how these facts are weaved to create a certain narrative, outcome, or paradigm. I actually don’t remember a lot of specifics that I’ve read but instead remember how I come to apprehend the material, and then apply those skills for the future. I do tend to get on people for their lack of context and historicity, and not being mindful of the conceptual and cognitive framework they’re operating under - relying too much on the present and the anecdotal when looking at broader phenomena.

    Sometimes the warnings you identify are connected to large institutions and social bodies. When this happens, your attention may turn to those in power and what they’re doing wrong in their leadership. This will direct your investigation into the details of the political structures of society, such as their foundational documents, the circumstances of their creation, their core doctrines and how they progressed into their current states. You sense that society needs to have a wiser approach to its operation, and a tradition of teaching in general, if it’s to thrive. To this effect, you like offering guidance and are worried whenever there is no mechanism of guidance in place for society. This is part of your motivation for criticizing politics, as you want them to lead with wisdom. The institutions that we trust with our lives should be dependable, and you see the devastating effects that would result if this isn’t addressed.

    This seems oddly specific, why politics? I don’t specifically comment on politics, but I can see where other Pi might be interested in politics since it's a distillation of something larger within the human condition. The general ethos of this sentiment I could get behind though.

    But your own involvement in politics will be minor, as you feel you’d be of greater service as a commentator than as an actor on the political stage itself. While you may have a lot to say about the societal situations, in day to day life you have a phlegmatic and lethargic disposition. You are slow, lumbering and steady – prone to drift through datasets in a meandering fashion.

    This is where I diverge from the l---, being lll- I’m more rigid, precise, and slightly faster paced. I can vacillate between phlegmatic (Pi), melancholic (Ji), and choleric (Je).

    You spend your time attending to matters of personal necessity while remaining ever watchful, perhaps woeful, of the situation outside your window. Yet, being so inclined to look out the window with cautious eyes, your relationship to the spontaneous present will be stunted. People may see you as stiff and may encourage you to loosen up more, to let go of inhibitions or take things easier. Getting into a state of playfulness and innocent flow will be a challenge for you, as doing risky things that require no forethought may seem frivolous and foolish. Yet despite whatever conscious critique you may feel for such frivolity, there will be a secret, perhaps unconscious, envy in you towards those who are blissful carefree and unburdened by thoughts of the future. Your unconscious may view this missing facet, which can experience a direct contact with life and is able to exist without fear, as a spiritual aspiration within you. Locked within your prudence and maturity is a youthful purity and readiness to just “be.” In rare occasions, this facet will come out of you in episodes of uninhibited play that remind you once again what the purpose of your precautions is for in the first place; it’s for the preservation of the ability to live.

    I’ve always joked that I never experienced the real or typical teen/early 20s experience. I went from childhood straight to middle age. I do envy those who seem freer and more carefree. Within every senex is a puer. Part of “old age” comes with acceptance of the absurdity of life; contending with the absurdity of life comes with laughing at the blatant contradictions and paradoxes life presents us with. You either try to work against it or resign yourself to the seeming meaningless of it all and despair, or embrace it and find value in it.

    #30108
    Azenta
    Participant
    • Type: NiTe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    I'm not l---, but I still wanted to weight in. I decided to break it down part by part, so it might be a long answer.

    As an [NiTe/NiFe/SiTe/SiFe] you are a Worldview type – inescapably drawn to observe the world from a panoramic historical perspective, aiming to understand the essential narratives, events and movements that define the state of the world, whether at the local or global level. You aim to understand the process involved in technological or cultural shifts from one thing to another and you formulate long information chains that link together these shifts by their mutual associations.

    The process described here is accurate, but I don't care about the ''state of the world'', nor much about technological or cultural shifts in themselves. I do what is described here but with my topic of interest, mainly with psychology and other related social sciences. As an example, if I analyze someone's behaviors, train of thoughts, problems, etc., I will take into account their ''history'' and the context (culture, society's trends, beliefs system, parents influence and their own generational influence, etc.) they are in and grew up in, but I won't care about the culture, politics, or anything in that regards on its own. Of course, if it was my subject of interest I would probably do as described here.

    This is really nit-picky of me, but I think it was important to mention the ''what'' of the description wasn't resonating with me. But the ''how'' is on point.

    Over time this will prompt an internal landscape to arise in you that is created from these datasets, allowing you to elaborate on the conditions surrounding a given event or situation with exhaustive breadth. In conversations, this can cause you to drift into long monologues, unraveling a topic and all of its associated information in order to paint a complete picture of what you see. This exhaustive array of facts will inescapably make you an anticipator of outcomes, for better or worse. Your memorized archive of changes across time will guide you to take the long-term view, manifesting in an appreciation for historical consequences.

    I got an NiTe l--- coworker and he does exactly this. With ll-- dev, I'd say I monologue less than a l--- usually does. I got a specific aspect I want to talk about and always cut short my monologuing when it starts to derive away too much, which means when it gets ''off topic''. As someone said above, I do have something to say somehow planned ahead and another part which is kind of unprepared, ready to navigate and close any gaps noticed while talking or created through a discussion. I will begin with an ''A to B to C, etc.'' thing to say, but it won't be clear cut. It's more a mental guideline. Ni is still leading, therefore I experience Te as helping to stay on track, to give some directions to Ni, but Ni still has more freewill. I still easily connect many ''facts'' more or less pertinent on their own to tailor a greater picture, but Te guides by consolidating a form of causality to Ni's rants. ''I want to reach B, so idc what you say, but get there'' is what Te basically do in my head.

    The little paragraph is a good example on its own lmao. I repeated myself a bit in order to depict the A to B I mentioned.

    And because of your internal map of the local or global landscape, you’ll inevitably uncover trends that you sense will lead to hazards or disasters. While others may be quick to propose naïve solutions to immediate problems, you constantly ask yourself "how would this affect the overall landscape in the long term?" and your breadth of information will supply the material from which to wager probabilities and cast predictions. Thus, you tend to have a level of prudence about you, independent of your age. You are generally a cautious person with conservative tendencies, and you notice warning signs quickly.

    Just yes.

    Sometimes the warnings you identify are connected to large institutions and social bodies. When this happens, your attention may turn to those in power and what they’re doing wrong in their leadership. This will direct your investigation into the details of the political structures of society, such as their foundational documents, the circumstances of their creation, their core doctrines and how they progressed into their current states. You sense that society needs to have a wiser approach to its operation, and a tradition of teaching in general, if it’s to thrive. To this effect, you like offering guidance and are worried whenever there is no mechanism of guidance in place for society. This is part of your motivation for criticizing politics, as you want them to lead with wisdom. The institutions that we trust with our lives should be dependable, and you see the devastating effects that would result if this isn’t addressed. But your own involvement in politics will be minor, as you feel you’d be of greater service as a commentator than as an actor on the political stage itself.

    I don't care about politics. Again, the ''what'' is unrelatable, but the process ('how'') is. I will want to understand the progression and what is implicated about the given subject or rather topic of interest. I will dig for the root causes of an issue, and by digging I mean recollecting the facts surrounding whatever topic I am interested in to see how they interplay(ed) with each other, not getting to the ''essence'' of it, like Ji does. I will stay wary of any judgements or conclusions until I have recollected the chain of events and causality behind the phenomenon I am observing.

    I'd say though I do tend to stay more passive with whatever requires an involvement as an actor, since when you get involved into ''something'' the pace is accelerated and I feel I start to lack the time to properly assess and observe whatever I am involved with. Being on the verge of things helps staying far away enough to not lose track of the full picture. The moment you're involved into something, your focus gets narrowed down since you become an element on your own in the picture, which also means becoming a sort of blind spot due to how you influence things around. All that to say, I'd agree I will prefer to be a ''commentator'' about a given subject rather than an actor.

    However, before finally concluding about this, I've noticed my Te development has made me become much more active and actually striving more implication than before. When I get fired up on a subject nothing will let me stay in a corner observing from afar ; I'll bite hard. But usually it will be because I already got a well established "picture" (Ni) of the subject, as the more I know, the more confident I am into being able to fill any gaps and holes in whatever argument I am making. I stay as a commentator, or even spectator, until I feel I have known enough to make my way into the scene and become an actor with back up lines if I happen to lose track of the next lines to be delivered.

    Anyway, I think my point is made here.

    While you may have a lot to say about the societal situations, in day to day life you have a phlegmatic and lethargic disposition. You are slow, lumbering and steady – prone to drift through datasets in a meandering fashion. You spend your time attending to matters of personal necessity while remaining ever watchful, perhaps woeful, of the situation outside your window. Yet, being so inclined to look out the window with cautious eyes, your relationship to the spontaneous present will be stunted. People may see you as stiff and may encourage you to loosen up more, to let go of inhibitions or take things easier. Getting into a state of playfulness and innocent flow will be a challenge for you, as doing risky things that require no forethought may seem frivolous and foolish. Yet despite whatever conscious critique you may feel for such frivolity, there will be a secret, perhaps unconscious, envy in you towards those who are blissfully carefree and unburdened by thoughts of the future. Your unconscious may view this missing facet, which can experience a direct contact with life and is able to exist without fear, as a spiritual aspiration within you. Locked within your prudence and maturity is a youthful purity and readiness to just “be.” In rare occasions, this facet will come out of you in episodes of uninhibited play that remind you once again what the purpose of your precautions is for in the first place; it’s for the preservation of the ability to live.

    Yes, totally resonates. I experienced the same thing as Thana said above, it's like I went from childhood to straight up middle age. And I would say I didn't and still don't care about those ''typical experiences'' in teenage years or 20s. I'm indifferent at best and find those experiences a waste of time at worst. I don't see the point of doing many stuff ''young'' people want to do. It feels shallow and useless, in the sense it doesn't give much happiness in the long term. However, I do also experience this envy very deeply, not so much for doing that kind of stuff but to be able to experience this ''pleasure'' or ''sense'' people doing that stuff seem to get from them. Because I've done some basic shit like getting wasted, but it felt so meaningless rapidly I didn't get why people enjoyed so much experiencing repeatedly in their life that kind of thing. So, it's more an envy of what they reach through that frivolity and spontaneity that I don't get myself by acting in a similar way. It is some sort of aspiration to reach a state where I am less inhibited, but not in a Pe lead fashion either, more so a sort of flow where I can ''just be'' and tastes life, the present but also all its various facets through time.

    I noticed through a recent road trip my way to appreciate the moment was by telling myself I was leaving a piece in time by being there and acting in the given environment at this present moment. It helped me ''just be'' and appreciate my time by perceiving this moment as a little sweet piece of a greater tapestry of many events. Also, observing people and recalling myself I was there at this moment and very place at the same time as them for some reasons, and that would never happen again, or not in the same way. It was then becoming my unique experience of life.

    Interestingly, even in my psyche I have created characters that seem to be some representation of my cognitive functions and their relation to each other. I got some form of adoration for my Se character but I also noticed I imagine it becoming crazy, psychotic, destructive and chaotic when I feel trapped. Anyway, there would be a lot to unpack with those ego characters, I'd rather speak about them elsewhere another time.

    To conclude, I think the process the description speaks of it is accurate for me, it's the ''what'' such as an ''interest in Politics'' that makes it lose relatability for me. In the end, I think it still captures a big part of my process.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Azenta.
    #30115
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Fascinating @azenta , this really helps me understand a lot of things. Both what's accurate and inaccurate about the profile.

    The political focus may need some adjustment, to generalize it more towards a broader application. Curiously, most of the NiTe ll-- we have in the database have some specific (political) issue that they're spicy about, and which they push for change in.

    But seeing as how you're not particularly involved in the dynamics of social affairs, I'm very curious to know how you channel your Te? Where do you see it coming out for you?

     

    #30116
    Azenta
    Participant
    • Type: NiTe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    @auburn I am glad it could help! 🙂

    I don't think I'll be an exception when it comes to having issues I am very passionate about (read Spicy lmao).

    I have equal rights at heart and can get really argumentative about anything related to women's sexuality or sexuality in general. I won't call myself Feminist in part because of how people deform this concept, but also because I think both men and women greatly suffer from society's conceptions of gender roles (such as toxic masculinity).

    I got addiction problematics extremely at heart as well, since I work at a therapeutic center with this clientele for 3 years already. It raised my awareness of the issue, and through meeting so many people with this problematic, and getting involved in their healing process so closely, I got faces in mind when I think about this issue and the pain involved. So, anyone saying misinformed bs, minimizing the consequences of excessive behaviors or frequent consumptions of any kind of things (alcohol, drugs, video games, gambling, sexuality, excessive purchases, working 45h+, social media consumptions, etc.) get to have a Te slap in the face.

    I'd say in general, mental health is something I get very fiery about. I studied psychology because I saw it as holding the solutions to shit loads of problems. It helped me a lot, tho through a lot of personal determination to get better as well. I had social phobia and went through countless panic attacks years ago. Through counseling, and without medication, I am now healed from those issues. My levels of anxiety are normal and don't reach the threshold for panic attacks anymore. For me, it was a revelation and some sort of liberation to affirm that I could reprogram my brain literally, that I wasn't bound to the construction of reality I had in mind. Therefore, I studied the field so I could help people do the same and take power back on their lives. So, I get very snippy about ignorance surrounding mental issues, with people complaining about their issues but doing nothing to get better or about ''society's programs/services/politics/etc.'' being shit when it comes to give accessibility to good mental health care. I could say my goal is to make a difference through this field, and that I am pretty confident I will, but slowly, as a true Pi lead lmao

    So, I'd say my Te comes out when it's time to teach and correct information. Everything about mental issues is about correcting erroneous mental constructions, so even for this very aspect Te comes out to correct or question erroneous beliefs I would notice in someone's discourse and behavioral patterns. It's also about people simply saying wrong things about a topic, like even with typology. When I was younger I was a nightmare when people started saying things not aligning with the knowledge I had acquired. Now I grew some maturity and I am much more polite when I want to add, rectify or question someone's takes. But I'd say that's mainly how my Te manifests. So, it's not as much about becoming some leader to lead the way rather than re-aligning people into a more proper direction when I see them drifting away. I observe, then when I see something or someone not aligning in the ''proper'' (Ni pattern) way, Te pops and (try to) get them back in.

    I'd also say Te makes me much more in touch with the specter of ''anger'' emotions since it acts as a powerful force to achieve what I mentioned in the previous sentences. I get literally fired up, and clients tell me I become very intense and passionate, especially when teaching them some psychology notions surrounding addictions. I become sure and confident of what I am sharing, and whatever the questions I am asked, I got an answer. Even Pe leads find me entertaining to watch and listen to, so the potato-ish aspect really is out the window when Te kicks in. Idk if you watched it, but in the vlog channel on discord I had shared a video of me taking the ego-image survey some weeks ago, and my Te was all over the place.

    At this point, I think I have answered your questions? I am not sure anymore xD I got a bit lost in the Ni sauce tbh. But if you have any other questions, I'll gladly answer!

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
© Copyright 2012-2021 Juan E. Sandoval - Use Policy