Pe Leads - Inspiration vs. Perspiration. Do you work Hard?

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  • #9050
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    *Note: Other types can comment too, if you have an especially strong opinion about this in your own life, or if you observe something about Pe leads regarding hard work.
    There has been some debate on other threads, regarding the "Fe Hero Myth."  The idea is that P encapsulates a "Live and let Live" philosophy, whereas J functions are more about morality and self-improvement.
    So I was wondering - how does this play out in your life?
    Are you more invested in inspiration than perspiration?  Do you work hard?
    Do you feel you've coasted by, moment to moment, with a "live and let live" philosophy?  Or do you find yourself going through "trial by fire," pushing yourself through the grind to improve?
    Do you feel like 'working hard'  or 'self improvement' is not native to you, or isn't something you really care about?
    How important is it to you, to perspire for the sake of your goals and improve yourself?
    Do you agree with Albert Einstein, a NeFi I--- ?  Does his attitude apply to you?


     
    Note: You don't have to answer each question separately.  Just curious where you stand in terms of working hard, feeling annoyed by hard work, or feeling like self-improvement is or isn't important.
    Don't be shy: I won't judge you no matter what you respond 🙂 I'm just very curious how this plays out.

    #9052
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    This was a few of my posts on this topic on another thread, but I'll reword it for this thread a little later:
    I once covered “While My Guitar Gently Weeps,” and I changed some of the lyrics.  This is the one that just came to mind:
    I look at the world and I notice it’s turning
    Still my guitar gently weeps
    My spine is curled, and my fingers are burning
    Still my guitar gently weeps…
    [Background voices:
    Look at you, look at you, look at you all. I’ll get you, I’ll get you, I’ll get you off.…]
    I put my original lyrics in italics 🙂
    I have many other lyrics like this, but I don’t want to write my unfinished stuff in public.
    The general gist is: I suffer for my music, my craft. I bleed for it.  My fingers are calloused and my heart is dry because I’ve scraped up every ounce of emotion so I could bleed it into the songs.
    There’s a strong sacrificial element, and I felt this even before I lost my voice. I gave up my childhood to practice that one note for 12 hours on a Saturday… over, and over, and over.  Any tiny mistake was a reflection of my character.
    I didn’t want to be famous, but it was ‘the price I had to pay’ in order to live out my dream and my purpose; what I was meant to do.
    My attitude toward music, or writing –  was always  one of sacrifice, bleeding and burning in order to become the vessel through which this vision could emerge, unscathed from its original form.  I’ve put my very character and soul through the fire to do this.
    I could say “I play music/ write books because I enjoy it,” but really, I don’t care about fun or enjoyment. It’s not a ‘fun adventure’ for me. What turns me on, and moves me to the bone, is putting myself through the grind.
    I know it’s not about me – hehe – but I’m wondering what this means in terms of type?  Seems like the SeFi III- … at least for me… is somehow touching on the same principles of the pain, and rebirth of the phoenix, rather than just momentary rebirth like I had suggested for Pe. Which really, is not what it is for me.  For me it’s all about the pain, sacrifice and suffering; dedicating myself wholly to a purpose for the sake of something greater than myself.
    --
    I’m putting Auburn's words in italics.
    Pe: new, novel, interesting.  –  I don’t care about this.
    Pe: Fertility: Springtime, Green, Grapes, Wine., Mirth, Joy. – I don’t care for any of this. It bores me to death honestly.
    Pe: Youth, New life, Vibrancy, Music, Dance, Sexuality. -> Yes.
    Fe Phoenix: Fire, Trials, Challenges, Death, Rebirth from the ashes, Purification, Gold, Refinement of Character  —> 100% vital and central to me.
    Because with Pe, the new idea may be just as good or better as the old one, or it could be crappy. Pe will discard things and try again, but it may also just discard things if they’re too boring. There isn’t a brick-by-brick continuity there. —> This sounds like death for me. I am not exaggerating when I say that the idea of living my life this way, when I lost my voice, made me feel suicidal. The only reason I kept going, is I dug deep down into myself to rediscover my purpose. I even took 50 hits of LSD at once to destroy myself, because staying the way I was, was worse than death – and I needed to wipe that slate clean and be reborn as something else.
    For the  few years following my voice loss,  I studied Jung and Comparitive religion, and learned to control my dreams in a highly disciplined fashion to communicate with my unconscious and plant seeds in myself to germinate the desired results. The rest of my life has been about pursuing concrete projects that are in line with my sense of purpose.  Shedding blood, sweat and tears to become whatever the project demands.
    To me, there’s no point in living if I don’t know what’s worth dying for.
    There is no arduous process in Pe’s version. It’s almost a type of forgetfulness or disinterest that causes newness. “I wanna do something else now” is the most bratty expression of this.   So renewal isn’t at all the same.  —> You’re right, and I absolutely do  not relate to this, even a little.  I have regenerative, renewing, bright energy about me; but I’m happiest when I’m doing the exact same thing for hours and hours every day, bleeding my lifeblood into a project. Being sick, and being forced to take breaks from work, has been a nightmare for me. I’m the type of person who obsesses about work when I’m on vacation. (Granted, it’s my creative work coming from my soul; but there’s an arduous process behind it.)
    For me the phoenix myth is not just about new life but is *specifically* about the betterment of character, it’s about rising up towards the philosopher’s stone; alchemy. And alchemy is about turning lead into gold. Turning a weak, unimpressive metal into something glorious. This has a hierarchical element to it (a value system) that Pe doesn’t have. —> Exactly the point I was making on my website: that my life’s purpose is to polish the vessel; to be an increasingly perfect vessel through which passion and truth and vision may emerge. This is not about “oh I like singing and writing.” It’s about, “my fingers are burning but my guitar gently weeps. I will make that thing fucking sing if I die doing it.” Anything less, would be a waste of life. I’d be ‘surviving,’ but not ‘living.’  For me, living is striving, refining, becoming, rising.
    Singing through my whisper was turning dust to gold. Making beauty out of wreckage. Symbolizing that very process, embodying it. I embodied alchemy. And it was not “fun.” It was a heavily disciplined lifestyle every second of every day, just to get sound out and to play those shows. Everything was about my voice – my diet, I couldnt go out and talk, my workouts, pills, vaccuuming, so much more – it was all discipline for the Cause of transforming the ashes of my voice to gold. I rose to the challenge with every breath for years, and beat the odds senseless. And I have never been happier.
    It is absolutely unconscionable, to me, to consume plants, animals, space; to create garbage and waste; to spend money, to expend resources and space – if I don’t know why I’m doing it, what I’m striving for. If I’m not actively, consistently pushing myself beyond the limit to become something more – I would rather end my life.
    Don’t get me wrong: I LOVE being alive, and I want to live forever.  But death is less fearsome to me, than the prospect of living moment to moment without a purpose.  I’d have  no moral qualms about ending my life if I was unable to fulfill a purpose that felt central to me, even though I love being alive with every bone in my body. “Just doing stuff moment to moment for the sake of mirth and joy” is suffocating and, for me, joyless.
    That said, ‘purpose’ to me is not about getting a job and paying the bills. It’s about putting myself through the grind for the sake of channeling something timeless and eternal.
    I was a terrible writer, but a vision came to me, after I destroyed myself – I believe it came to me for a reason. I had to learn to write, no matter what; I live in its service.
    Everything else I do – paying bills, caring for my health, studying typology – is in service of realizing this vision. I take time off to clear mt mind and recover from bouts of illness, and I understand that I can’t write if I don’t LIVE and  communicate with real people- but I always feel like I’m not really alive if I’m not writing.
    Even @ivory is part of the vision. I could not have gotten married, and would not have considered it, with anyone that would ‘get in the way of my project’ rather than being a muse and a partner in it.
    Love is not a break from work, but a chance to go deeper into it; to make the vision real; to test my ideas against reality, live them out, and expand. It is also a test of character, strength and integrity. I would never settle for less.
    --
    Even as a kid I practiced music after school, during lunch; I got perfect grades so my parents would get me lessons…
    My mistakes are symbols that I haven't worked hard enough, as is my body fat or my hair falling out. Every bit of talent, creative work and beauty that I craft, is a symbol of my perseverance.
    Meanwhile, mirthful fun sounds less exciting than watching paint dry. While I’ve never been bored when I’m alone, I have a hard time coming up with something more boring than being trapped with mirthful people eating grapes and drinking wine, talking nonchalantly. Unless I have a reason to be there- like I’m chasing a guy or playing a show- I tend to avoid those type of events, because I’d rather be at home, stark sober, slaving away over some chapter for the 75th time. When I’m working, I never feel bored or wish I was somewhere else; though I do reach walls and take sanity breaks for the sake of the project.
    --
    For me, feeling the flow of the world is natural, and beautiful, don’t get me wrong – I call myself Animal for a reason   I love my visceral animal energy and flow with the moment, and wouldnt want it any other way! I thought Se was the most beautiful function when I first read about it, because of the immediate visceral energy. I thought I wasnt good enough to be Se lead.. I cant dance or draw; I’m too complex, too off world. Like animals.. Se on its own is so beautiful and pure. But I want to use that backdrop to channel something universal; to tap into the timeless and eternal rhythm of the world, beyond the endless nows.
    -
    I actually think overall my relationship to my family is excellent.  My reaction was a result of my nature, I think. The envy (4), angry autonomy (8) and desire to get whats mine for myself (gamma meritocracy)… but also a deep devotion to understanding myself and my nature, looking inward, and overpowering empathy which was so beautiful to experience in music. Music was the place I felt most free to delve into these intense emotions I always had, and likely would have had due to my very nature, regardless of what else occurred.
    Music was cathartic and also challenging. It gave me a focus, a hunt; it gave me insight to my unconscious , who I really am.. it gave me a purpose, something to build myself into.. it gave me something I could give back to the world, to inspire them and hold up the mirror of my songs, for them to look at, and find what they see fit. I was a muse , and that was my purpose among others but for me, music was a pipeline that connected my inner world to my body, and thus, connected me to others around me. It was my pipeline to Earth, the path to love, the experience of God.
    I felt this way about it when I was young, before the tragedy. The autonomy stuff might have been exasperated by envy for my brother, but more than anything I just really wanted to master music and write books. I was determined to build up my talent as a masterpiece and do what I love for the rest of my life, and embody the messages that came to me through music – love, honesty, authenticity, the unconscious, spirituality.
    I also was ugly and believed if my voice and songs were beautiful enough, “he” would want me. There was a sense I had to develop my abilities to be wanted on Earth- by “him” , or really anyone. Why would anyone want me around if not for my amazing gifts? What was so special about me? I wanted to be admired, adored for my music and its message. I wanted to fend off rejection.
    All of this is normal teenage girl stuff, but the amount of obsessive perfectionism I had around it was extreme. I had an extreme need to be something more, to live my dreams, to give my life meaning. I don’t think this was about my family; it seems innate.
    I call it “central” because it is the pattern that keeps showing up again, over and over in my life- the masochist, the martyr for the cause, the determined hunter chasing a vision, shedding blood, sweat and tears, doing anything it takes to bring that passion to life. This is my pattern – it’s how I respond to tragedy, opportunity, and choice- in every scenario – since I was little. I hone in on a sense of purpose and it sets the stage for my personal mythology in which I am the protagonist warrior, turning dust to gold, all for the sake of fulfilling a vision.
    -
    I believe who we are is a spectrum of potential. Our spectrum is specific to us individually, but which way we choose to mold that potential is up to us. In this sense, character is not the hand youre dealt, but how you play that hand. You only get one hand, but many ways you might choose to play it.
    -
    Hmm, I think it’s natural for people to do self work. In order for me to be my most natural self, I have to chase, hunt and strive- and dance with the rhythm of the world. The question is, what muse do I want to chase, and how deeply will it satisfy me? In order to dance with the rhythm of such a muse, I have to become a better dancer. So really.. all of this is very natural, all the way down to my hungry animal appetite. I am hungry for will, for fight, for fire and rising and victory. I am hungry to conquer my prey, to reach the stars, to forge the version of me that can do this. Because I feel the flow of the world and that is how I move with it in the most honest way possible. To do any less, would be unnatural, ignoring the rhythm, refusing to dance.
    -
    Rather than feeling like Ji & Je "diluted" my Se, I actually feel like I’m deeper immersed in my own energy. I embody rawness, animalism, sexuality, rawr, tigress, Kali… I express that which is most deep and central to Se. While other Se users dress it in sassy masks (or this is how it feels to me), I go right down to the animal, bare and naked. I am the trickster, the aphrodisiac, the brutal animal goddess. My sexuality is deeply ingrained, accepted and worn as art. I epitomize the huntress, the hunger, the chase.. I was even constructing a name based on these. Animal is the base part of us, yet Anima is life force, breath. I am hunter and vitality in one. How many Se leads have tapped so deeply into their myth? How many can capture and encapsulate it as such? How many, in their home lives, are so carnal it’s spiritual?
    Maybe I am less so since I ascribe meaning to things; maybe its more carnal to live without meaning. But still, I bite and hiss and meow at my husband, and indulge myself with him at my leisure. I celebrate our beauty and life in a visceral way.
    I feel like the J functions have helped illuminate whats real and central about the Se, in a symbolic way, even if I spend less time doing Se by itself. Ive uncovered its symbolic resonance in  ways that other Se users might do, but not realize they do it. I discovered my archetypal role, if only to symbolize it in my work.
    -
    Compared to Fe leads, I prefer to show my ideas in a more anecdotal way, inspiring the readers through the trials and tribulations of the characters, and offering solutions and philosophies that might awaken them. As a Se lead, I’m a doer not a conceptualizer, so showing actions (Se) with symbolic meaning behind them (Fi-Ni) and solutions (Te) is how I communicate best.
    I’ve gotten feedback that by reading the self-improvement methods embedded in my books, others have been able to take steps to improve their problems or explore new parts of themselves which allowed growth. To me, this is the ideal outcome of others reading my work.  Likewise, when singing through my whisper, an artist who was going blind had contacted me saying my work inspired her to take further steps. I also inspired several other artists to start singing when they’d been afraid to do so; one of which is among my favorite artists now. I love this inspiration-domino effect. They all said something similar: “If you can sing through your whisper, then what’s stopping ME from doing what I love?”
    And I see this as very “natural” and also Se.  Se “volition” can inspire people in the sense that I don’t need to sit there and make a list of what to do to be better, but rather, I embody my own philosophy; actually live it out.  I do something, chase something with fanatic obsessive passion, then others say “I wanna do what she is doing.”  I create an SF intense aesthetic around it, which draws people in to my world.  So how I do it, is very true to myself, rather than emulating an Fe type.

    #9162
    Faex
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    My Je is useful only when in service of Pe Play. I found that out as I wrote my three books. "Hard work" meaning utilizing all my energy, brought zero fruit when done in the typical "hard-working" Je way. I had to keep remembering to play. Then lo and behold! Progress!
    Inspiration to me is not optional at all. It's inspiration or death (of motivation).
    But my inspiration is very much Ne + Fi. Not purely Ne. There's a post Auburn wrote in the old forum, lomg ago, describing Ne + Fi as "they embody a kind of celebration of freedom." I don't think I've found a more perfect way to describe the thing I call "inspiration", "play", and "creativity", where I'm concerned. It's just expressing what's in the heart; through words, song, dance, movement etc. Moreover, when I let Je or Pe calculations interfere, it's very unforgiving what then transpires. My body literally gets tied up in painful knots and "tensions" that will lead either to rage or physical illness if not undone. Being "true" eventually turns out not to be optional, in the same way "don't take poison" isn't. Not that I don't take the poison (again and again); I just am forced to surrender and puke it out every time.
    Perspiration for inspiration, is how I'd describe by creative process.

    #16367
    GreenCoyote
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Hmm, this is an interesting topic.
     
    I would say that I find I can be very hardworking. In the past if it was required of me to be hardworking I am able to do it, at least for short durations. When I am energized there is nothing I can do but work it seems. A week ago I had a lot of energy and it just turned into cleaning and being active. I also find that when my Fe is activated (helping people and seeing my environment recive a positive response from my actions) it fuels my activity in the Se department.
    I have often been told by people at my job that I am very hardworking, never slaking. Although I do have days where I go into work and I can barely lift a finger. I think being Pe lead just means that the hardworking is more sporadic and less consistent.
    I enjoy being in an energetic flow state, where my Se and Fe work in tandem to produce a sort of cohesive group atmosphere. However ever since working with my NiFe friend I have noticed that work doesn't really feel like work and all the activities that I used to not be able to accomplish are being accomplished. However! I think there is a limit to how much we can push ourselves into a state where we are not actually 100% comfortable. So I know being a workhorse is not my thing in the long run.
    Relaxing is more my thing than work, but I also know that in order to accomplish goals a little bit of hardworking is required. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

    #16374
    EpicEntity
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    HardWork = Obsessive Impose
    HardWork = Reaching what's yet to be conceivable
    HardWork = Letting what's least resistant within you meet the outside world with the most resistances possible.
    HardWork = Doing all that you can do > Fully experiencing yourself > Fulfillment of your entity > Never ending expansion.

    #16376
    Elsie
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    work is part of the job of living,
    do it smart and hard and look good doing it 😛
    forging the way,
    and if all fails, turn into the ghost from The Grudge
    and pop out the other side later with a bunch of fire-axes
    work is def my flow
    https://youtu.be/xm9mchVp2EM

    #16378
    Discord
    Participant
    • Type: Unknown
    • Development:
    • Attitude: Unknown

    For what it is worth -I hate working. Pe inferior. I suppose if that work tied in with my synchronicity, I would give it 110%. Problem is that I am at a point where I have to do slave labor. I have no say in where the future takes the company I am working for. I can see where it is heading and how to make it better, but that falls on deaf ears. Therefore, I am working for someone else to take vacations, have great insurance, get tax breaks, etc. whilst having everyone else do their work. It is the same wherever I go. I absolutely hate the system and for this reason I try to weaken every Te stronghold on me and my life -even if that means having to struggle financially for it.
    Btw living a somewhat minimalist lifestyle is something everyone should at least try. It puts things into a state of clarity. What do I really need? What am I willing to sacrifice my freedom or time for? What really is important to me?
    When you die, no one remembers your hard work or job promotions. They remember the time you spent, and if that was spent working 90% of the time, that does not mean much in the end.
    Of course, if you have children then ignore what I said it doesn't apply anymore.

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