[Ji II–] How do you relate to this profile?

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  • This topic has 15 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 5 months ago by Nyx.
  • Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Hello!

    Below is a first draft of the behavioral profile of the Ji ll– type.

    This profile is meant to apply to the FiSe ll– , FiNe ll– , TiNe ll– , TiSe ll–.

    I’d really love to get feedback from our Ji ll– members ( @nadia , @alice , @elisaday , @becks , @janie , @bella , @cosmo , @ivory and others). I have a feeling this one’s gonna need revision but wanna know where exactly. Please let me know what you think, and which parts sound correct and which ones don’t, thanks!



    Ji ll–

    As a [FiSe/FiNe/TiNe/TiSe ll–] you are a Compass type with an Explorer development. Your mind begins from a place of withdrawal, reservation and meticulous analysis of reality in order to answer fundamental questions of inner alignment, purpose and true happiness. By reflecting on the essential nature of reality, you have an intrinsic sense of what the answers may be and pursue those pathways with fervor. The answers, you intuit, to this happiness and purpose are found via an authentic lived expression in alignment to your inner truth – through an embodiment of the principles that you sense operating behind reality. This embodiment almost always takes the form of artistic expression, such as via lyric writing, paintings, music, dance or fashion, wherein the artform becomes the vehicle by which those principles and realizations can radiate out into the world. What you desire from life is first to understand what the highest values are, and then to live true to that awareness through your manifestation. This higher value can take many different forms, such as being the elevation of beauty, goodness, honesty or consciousness – each of which may become the focus and thematic nexus to your artistry.

    However, you are also very perfectionistic about this and will take your time with your writings, songs or crafts – making sure each work is as representative as possible of the ineffable, core idea that exists in your mind. If that idea isn’t manifesting justly, then you’ll hesitate to put it into the world. This inescapably makes you slower than others at most tasks, as you invest extra in a precision which others are much freer to cut short for the sake of practicality. You are not the most practical creature, and your values for true representation and precision are at odds with a mechanical world that values results, bottom-lines, efficiency and economy. You’re not the most industrial personality, and making a living represents a powerful challenge to you since working outside of your very niche passions will feel like a suffocation and a sin to your essence. Worse still, productive output is something that must happen organically and unforced for you. You feel at your best when you connect intimately to a seamless flow, where your exploration of the environment happens in real-time with no friction, hesitation or delays between “self” and “world.”

    But this ideal state is not always easy to attain and requires being sensitively primed for it. Moments of stress or lack of clarity lead to a paralysis and blocking of flow. When you’re not flowing, you will tend to revert back to your isolationist tendencies, which emerge from your innate reservation and privacy. In this state you resist the world and retain your own mental autonomy, coveting your own resources and having a cognitive barrier between the inner and outer. You can easily exist in this state for long periods of time if you allow it, but will ultimately feel a hollowness emerge from it since it’s imperative to you that you retain both your mental autonomy, as well as the capacity to interface with the world meaningfully through expression.

    And yet another personal struggle will exist in you when it comes to the manifestation of change in the world towards a great organizational truth. Although your self-expression represents one form of embodiment of truth in the world, the ideological and political spheres will also evoke a deep yearning in you and desire for the practical elevation of humanity towards your higher principles of being. Subjects such as world peace, the transformation of humanity towards sustainable forms of living, and the evolution of consciousness to untold heights, will preoccupy your daydreams. But your own attitude will be faint and internalized, making it difficult to compete in the political sphere or make an impact in the big executive world in the way that it forces solutions to arise.

     

    • This topic was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Auburn.
    • This topic was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Auburn.
    • This topic was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Auburn.
    • This topic was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    I also want to offer a behind the scenes breakdown of each of these profiles, and how the energetics are interwoven together, roughly…

    • Red = Ji
    • Blue = Pe
    • Green = Je
    • Gold = Pi

    This is a rough approximation, as I attempted to weave in the energetic components seamlessly, and in the specific manner that is unique to this hierarchy, but I hope it offers some insight regarding the nature of the profile. Thanks!

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Elisa Day
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Wow, Aubs, it’s perfect! I don’t think I’ve ever read anything typology related that felt so much like someone has been stalking me my whole life and revealing all my skeletons to the world, eep!

    bella
    Participant
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    This gave me a lot of “Ching”! 🙂 I luv it <3

    As a Ti I notice very much the accurately in choice of words — and when the accuracy is there the resonance is even stronger — and indeed I resonated deeply with most everything, and feel it describes me very well!!

    ..

    I realize this is a Ji description and not a TiNe one, so this may not be directly relevant, but if I would have to ‘tweak’ it to fit myself even more, it would only be in that I have wanted to align my inner self with an objective truth that may be outside of me and possibly at odds with my gut feelings/intuition, and was careful not to subjugate ‘objective truth’ to my inner sense of alignment.  That in itself, though, was sometimes as odds with my inclination and ability as a compass type to naturally attune intuitively into what i sense aligns with my essence.  But my Ti compels me to transcend this personal alignment and observe reality first and foremost – as an outsider looking in, from the premise/axiom that my personal sense of alignment may or may not be compatible with the higher objective truth (and may more likely only be true in the relative phenomenological sense).

    I’ve often thought this to be one of the key differences between Ti and Fi?  It has seemed to me that Fi seems to be more liberated from the need to align itself with ideas that may be discordant with its essence, and more comfortable with choosing the epistemology that its own essence intuitively leads to (and in that way it feels holistic more easily).  This doesn’t necessarily mean that Fi would accept irrationality, but rather that it would intuitively be lead into the types of ideas that also resonate with its essence and may be less rigorous with questioning or poking that bias.  I’ve personally termed this in my head as “Fi luxury” — something Ti leads would wish was possible, but sense they would betray truth via that form of operation.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by bella.
    Alice
    Participant
    • Type: FiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Hello! I’ve been reading typological descriptions about myself for probably about 10 years, and it’s very rare I come across one that actually describes me as well as this, especially so succinctly.

    There is something missing though that I can’t quite place, and it might be the added resolution of my specific cognitive functions. It’s either that, or my Je which I’ve suspected has been close to the surface for some time. I personally don’t see the value in isolating too much anymore. I used to isolate for days or even weeks, but I can’t do it for even a day now without feeling very very  restless and like I’ve wasted potential. I crave that flow you mentioned, and I know I won’t get it if I’m sitting at home ruminating. I know I just have to kick myself in the ass and get out there, and I’ll probably find what I’m looking for. That being said, I certainly do feel I need periods of rest from time to time, but I’ve discovered that I actually don’t need as much rest as I once thought I did. I’ve become much more self-starting and sustained with my energy than I used to be, and I feel I can push through most things if I want to. It is a fairly inconsistent skill though, hence the unconscious aspect of it.

    All in all though, this seems like a really spot on description that just might need a little tweaking! I personally focus almost wholly on that state of flow you mentioned. If I am not fully in contact with life, I feel frustrated and like I’ve somehow lost the ability to be present in the moment. It feels like a kind of permanent dissociation if I’m not living to my fullest, and even if doing that is exhausting, its a good kind of exertion and a good kind of rest that comes after.

    EDIT: Some classic Alice edits here as I think of more things to say after I’ve hit “post.” I’ve been interested in ideology and politics for a long time, but only from a kind of removed standpoint, and usually only when it directly impacts me or other people like me. I don’t get directly involved in political discussions except when America’s 4 year presidential elections roll around, and that’s when I start feeling bad for not being up to date on politics. Ironically though, I have very deeply held ideological, political, and ethical stances, but I don’t discuss them much. I’m also notoriously out of touch with the news, but I’ve been trying to remedy that lately by replacing my Instagram app with the NPR news app on my phone.

    I’ve had an interest in far left anarchist ideology for a long time, probably since I was about 16 or so. I’ve sincerely always held that utopian vision for humanity ever since I was a child, though I know that sounds a little far fetched. I’ve always seen hierarchy as a legitimate evil that prevents people from reaching their full potential, whether they are in a position of privilege or subjugation. This is probably why Je never reached consciousness, as it makes me very uncomfortable to confront my utopian ideals with the concession that hierarchy is sometimes necessary to accomplish goals quickly.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Alice.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Alice.
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    Ivory
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Ooh exciting!!

    Your profile description touches on some MAJOR ongoing issues I’ve encountered in life. I’m learning to cope but Holy Motherload of Exotic Juices, it’s been a ride!

    I don’t resonate with everything, though, so I’ll go over the whole text. Here goes:

    Ji ll–
    As a [FiSe/FiNe/TiNe/TiSe ll–] you are a Compass type with an Explorer development. Your mind begins from a place of withdrawal, reservation and meticulous analysis of reality in order to answer fundamental questions of inner alignment, purpose and true happiness. By reflecting on the essential nature of reality, you have an intrinsic sense of what the answers may be and pursue those pathways with fervor.

    Good good. My basic temperament is one of reservation, and I am constantly scanning new information for how it reflects on what I know – so far – to be true of the world. I didn’t used to interpret myself being meticulous with this process, however. I take in a lot of information on a constant basis to feed my hunger for intellectual stimulation. It’s easy for me to make connections, to “get things,” and I am very quick with this. The “meticulous” only comes out when actually expressing my ideas, making it more obvious from the outside looking in. I say this more in an “FYI” way, because what you write here is still true.

    The answers, you intuit, to this happiness and purpose are found via an authentic lived expression in alignment to your inner truth – through an embodiment of the principles that you sense operating behind reality. This embodiment almost always takes the form of artistic expression, such as via lyric writing, paintings, music, dance or fashion, wherein the artform becomes the vehicle by which those principles and realizations can radiate out into the world. What you desire from life is first to understand what the highest values are, and then to live true to that awareness through your manifestation. This higher value can take many different forms, such as being the elevation of beauty, goodness, honesty or consciousness – each of which may become the focus and thematic nexus to your artistry.

    This causes me to take pause because it sounds more like @Animal than myself, tbh. She is the one to manifest her truth into artistic venues. She is very aware and comfortable with her Pe and so the venues through which she expresses her inner truth are thoroughly explored and employed. I use her as an example because I live with her, obviously. I can’t easily compare to another Ji II–.

    Myself, I have a very difficult time even finding such a medium. If anything, when taking on the challenge to *create* in order to demonstrate ze truth, I find that I have a hard time taking it seriously. A local expression of something that ought to exist on an infinite timescale… It seems like a fool’s errant, too small, not enough, so I end up NOT committing to a means of expression. This ties in perfectly to the following:

    However, you are also very perfectionistic about this and will take your time with your writings, songs or crafts – making sure each work is as representative as possible of the ineffable, core idea that exists in your mind. If that idea isn’t manifesting justly, then you’ll hesitate to put it into the world.

    Yes an No!

    Yes. In most cases, I won’t even BEGIN because I am drowning in the conviction of its perfect redundancy. My perfectionism sees the momentary physical representation as lacking and flawed. Heresy. Similar to the law of Muslim tradition that prohibits the depiction of Allah. Allah/God/Truth cannot be captured in an image by human hand.

    No. It works exactly the other way around for me. I create, then I evaluate. I play with colors until my feelsies feel all nice-nice inside, at which point the work is then completed. AFTERWARDS, I read my work (usually visual work) and work it backwards to contemplate the meaning of it, employing tactics from the wild seas that are philosophy and psychology and other -ophies and -ogies.

    This inescapably makes you slower than others at most tasks, as you invest extra in a precision which others are much freer to cut short for the sake of practicality. You are not the most practical creature, and your values for true representation and precision are at odds with a mechanical world that values results, bottom-lines, efficiency and economy. You’re not the most industrial personality, and making a living represents a powerful challenge to you since working outside of your very niche passions will feel like a suffocation and a sin to your essence. Worse still, productive output is something that must happen organically and unforced for you.

    I am NOT a practical person, that’s for sure!! ” ST ” (as in TiSe) temperament notwithstanding, I am not practical. Work is difficult for me. Socionics’ “LSI bureaucrat” and MBTI’s “ISTP mechanic” can both kiss my non-practical ass. Excuse my French.

    You feel at your best when you connect intimately to a seamless flow, where your exploration of the environment happens in real-time with no friction, hesitation or delays between “self” and “world.”

    Yes. However, I have found that “flow” comes hard to me, especially because I believed that it just happened automatically. I was mistaken. My flow happens only with intent. Only then is my energy free.

    What I found to work better for me is to create myself based on my Ji analysis of how the world works. Mind over body. I think, therefore I can think some more. Oh, and “exist.” I actively employ different styles of thought in order to be different in the world. Note; I do not “change.” Think of Bruce Lee’s famous quote: “Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.” This is a good metaphor for the main channel of my artistic expression of authentic living. If I adapt my body to a thought, then I control my actions and reactions (emotions). This way, I control the world. As such, I am the expression of my truth. I become my own creator.

    But this ideal state is not always easy to attain and requires being sensitively primed for it. Moments of stress or lack of clarity lead to a paralysis and blocking of flow.

    That’s a Bingo! Except, in my case, change “moments of” to “a life of.” It’s a hard knock life.

    Luckily, experience and clarity journey together.

    When you’re not flowing, you will tend to revert back to your isolationist tendencies, which emerge from your innate reservation and privacy. In this state you resist the world and retain your own mental autonomy, coveting your own resources and having a cognitive barrier between the inner and outer. You can easily exist in this state for long periods of time if you allow it, but will ultimately feel a hollowness emerge from it since it’s imperative to you that you retain both your mental autonomy, as well as the capacity to interface with the world meaningfully through expression.

    Yes. This taken to its extreme leads to depression. And it 100% becomes about resisting the world and retaining mental autonomy. Been there, done that. Would not recommend.

    And yet another personal struggle will exist in you when it comes to the manifestation of change in the world towards a great organizational truth. Although your self-expression represents one form of embodiment of truth in the world, the ideological and political spheres will also evoke a deep yearning in you and desire for the practical elevation of humanity towards your higher principles of being. Subjects such as world peace, the transformation of humanity towards sustainable forms of living, and the evolution of consciousness to untold heights, will preoccupy your daydreams. But your own attitude will be faint and internalized, making it difficult to compete in the political sphere or make an impact in the big executive world in the way that it forces solutions to arise.

    This sounds like me when I was in my teens. It’s interesting; as I’ve grown older, I’ve become less idealistic in regards to worldly matters, but much more invested in personal philosophy. I see this as a positive development, as it re-orients my locus of control to where I can create change, when before I could not.

    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    I love your post @Ivory <3

    I will add that if I had come new to this site and read all the descriptions so far, I would assume I’m JiSe II if ‘meticulous artistic expression’ was the main theme. We theorize that my Fi developed in my 20s. I’ve had meticulous YEARS of perpetually honing a song, a project, a novel – since I was a very young child. I did this before anyone else I know. My whole life has been about being a vessel – and not just for ‘inspiration and flow’ – because that happens, but that’s 1% of the job – and the other 99% is fine chiseling.  I wouldn’t show anyone any of my work until it reflected the vision, in all its profound truth…. yet it was never perfect enough. And I filled up countless diaries as a kid and as a teen, in which I explored the meaning upon meaning upon meaning, symbol upon symbol upon symbol, seeking to hone in on the core of the matter, and then contemplating its truest, deepest meaning some more.  So I do agree that this paragraph is much more me than you – in fact, much more me than anyone else I can think of.  I am not meticulous moment to moment in conversation, but when it comes to creating art and seeking to capture the perfect meaning behind it, yes.

    Edit:
    I think there’s a distinction to be made between dedicated focus toward perfecting creative projects and honing the presentation so it’s true to the idea; vs. concision moment to moment.  Any type (or maybe Pe types?) can have tremendous passion for meaningful distinctions and capturing them in art, and honing that art into something ‘true to form’ – while Ji types sit, speak and relate in a way that feels meticulous whether they care to or not.

    We have seen Se lead artists like Trent Reznor, who didn’t have developed Ji – or J at all in his early videos – being incredibly meticulous in their work, and attributing profoundly specific meaning to each decision.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
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    Alice
    Participant
    • Type: FiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    It’s interesting. I’m almost an anti-perfectionist. I just do a bunch of shit when I find I am unblocked, and try to figure out what’s good and bad later. I’ve found I can be my own worst enemy when I have full creative control. That’s why I shoot on film – I can’t look at the photos until weeks later. I just have to trust I’m good at what I’m doing. Same goes for music. I record on an old 4-track tape deck, really unsophisticated, and without much control over how it sounds. I just try to get a good take and worry about the rest later.

    I relate to what ivory said too about finding out what something is about after it’s created. I often write songs that seem to mean very little at the time, but I’ll realize much later that I actually wrote eloquently about a specific subject ‘on accident.’ I mostly just try to give over the creative process to the flow, and I know that if I try to take the reigns, I will probably fuck it up! Hope this is useful info.

    Vive
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    @Auburn

    You wondered how I would relate to this, here’s what I think:

    I don’t relate to the core of this description, but there are many relatable parts to it. Sure being authentic and striving for higher values is important, as is learning to express yourself with a certain meticulousness. It’s just that I don’t really have any core ideas or values I feel I need to express per se. While there’s obviously a degree of consistency in my values or ideas, they are rather mold-able and evolve with time.

    On the other hand, I am naturally meticulous and extremely careful, my mother even wrote it down as one of my defining traits. Simple posts sometimes take me multiple hours to write. Mind you, this time is not spent on correcting or refining what is already written, this is merely spent on the process of forming my thoughts to a satisfactory degree. I am also quite perfectionistic and can hold myself to ridiculous standards. On the other hand, I can parse out volumes of content in a short while on occasion. I can be rather chaotic and unstructured. I don’t really know what or why this happens yet, but well sometimes the info flows and sometimes it’s like the creek is jammed and zero water can flow through.

    I like efficiency and often make systems to be efficient, these can work for a really long time, until I get sick of them or feel to limited by them and then I change to something else. I might be really disciplined for a long amount of time and then much less so for a long amount of time. Sometimes I manage to have a nice balance between discipline and down time.

    I know myself, but the deeper I dig, the more confusion ensues.

     

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Vive. Reason: Phrasing
    Chiron
    Participant
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    I know my dev is II-I but I relate to everything said here. Great description!

    From my own experience and what I know of the other Ji II-x I know, I think this part of the Pe II– profile may belong here too though:

    Your relationship to the world will be distressed and aggravated by your inner compass whenever life suggests that you do something that goes against these very niche positions. At work you may protest against procedures that encourage speaking inauthentic words and untruths, or which violate your private ethics.  At worse this can lead to paralysis and self-sabotage, where your compass causes you to fixate stubbornly in a position that feels true, but which is counterproductive and destructive. However, since you’re always in a state of fluid exploration, you ultimately question your preferences when they fail to be prescriptive to a positive and joyous life. Therefore, you’re never stuck anywhere for long, since your travels guide you in time out of that paralysis and into a new form of being. You are in a perpetual state of self-evolution, as part of your essence itself is change and you re-manifest yourself over time.

    But this constant state of change, of mental and physical travel and reinvention, comes at the loss of security, certainty and “home.” Behind all your wanderings and self-transformations hides an inner yearning to anchor down into an existence where you know just who you are, who you belong with and where. Settling down and laying roots, while a frightening idea in some parts of consciousness, due to the panic of choosing incorrectly, is also the hidden agenda of your unconscious and is a source of idealistic fantasy. Your wanderings are motivated, at heart, to coming across that place that will satisfy all your criteria, give you the right answers, and tie you down forever.

    Honestly in this you described the primary theme (transformation & finding home) of my life and the fundamentals of my motivation 😮 But I see this consistent transformation as more of a combo of Pe+J, especially the ethical function. It seems to me that real change never just *happens*. There always has to be a judgement of the self as ‘not optimal’ in order to drive the effort it takes to become something seen as ‘better’ or ‘more evolved’.

     

    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    great replies so far, thanks!

    (p.s. I’m taking notes on everyone’s responses, and seeing where the areas of change may be. I’ll wait a bit longer for a few more opinions — then I’ll attempt to integrate the feedback into an updated draft.)

    a.k.a.Janie
    Participant
    • Type: FiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Essentially, yes this is me. I did feel the need, though, to go back and read the other descriptions for related types/levels, and out of all of them, yes, this one is the best fit.
    To give my honest feedback, I think it’s a really good description of Ji II– , as far as I can imagine this in the abstract. The ways that I feel I personally differ from it, is mostly wanting to incorporate some Je. So it might just be me. Until I read the articles about Daimon and Muse functions, I almost was going to push that I had conscious Te, because of the role things like science have always played in my life. It’s also a bit weird for me that I don’t really have an artistic outlet. I do have my meditation, which totally does fit (esp. the first paragraph). Other than that, I usually channel my inner drive for self improvement and knowledge into computing/programming endeavors. Also, like @Ivory said, I at some point stopped caring that I couldn’t make a difference in making the world more like I believe it ideally should be, and started focusing on myself. Although I was more dramatic about it, and kind of gave up. But now I have to make sure I do at least what little I can, such as vote, and attend public demonstrations for the most crucial issues facing humanity.

     

    Otherwise, I wanted to comment on something @bella said. I noticed she described a drive to

    “align my inner self with an objective truth that may be outside of me and possibly at odds with my gut feelings/intuition, and was careful not to subjugate ‘objective truth’ to my inner sense of alignment.”

    And, yes, my first thought was that sounds Ti. Whereas, an Fi lead would be more likely to speak of “my truth”, or “the ultimate truth of my existence”, “what my core values are”, etc. Perhaps even, to not regard the ultimate truth, whatever that may be, as to be found *out there* somewhere, but as something to be discovered inside, perhaps through things like meditation? Maybe this is completely wrong, but I feel like maybe high Ti users are somehow removed from their bodies, compared to Fi users? Also, with Fi, there’s this trend of, “I know what my body is telling me”, and being into natural healing and things of that nature. Many (most?) of us Fi leads can likewise be considered Highly Sensitive Persons, which for me involves being highly in tune with my bodily instincts and intuitions, whether purely emotional, purely physical, or a mixture of both. “Objective truth” is something of secondary importance to me, but when I try to approach that, it’s with Te. Because even then, it’s subjective to the laws of the universe. But I digress.

    So anyway, not to make the thread go off topic (Ti/Fi disambiguation has already received excellent attention in other threads!) I think this description is really good, and the only ways I feel different from it are probably personal to me, not the description being off of the Ji II–.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by a.k.a.Janie.
    Nyx
    Participant
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Directive

    @Auburn, Excellent job. I love this description.

    “Your mind begins from a place of withdrawal, reservation and meticulous analysis of reality in order to answer fundamental questions of inner alignment, purpose and true happiness. By reflecting on the essential nature of reality, you have an intrinsic sense of what the answers may be and pursue those pathways with fervor.”

    Yes, and for me I think the word I would use is meaning, always looking for the fundamental meaning in everything, the underlying message, which leads to truth (objective or subjective), purpose and happiness. I do think happiness is a choice though,  choosing how you look at something, how you let it affect you. I realize that is relative and can be influenced by things beyond our control, and relies on someone’s quality of life and privilege, however.

    “The answers, you intuit, to this happiness and purpose are found via an authentic lived expression in alignment to your inner truth – through an embodiment of the principles that you sense operating behind reality. This embodiment almost always takes the form of artistic expression, such as via lyric writing, paintings, music, dance or fashion, wherein the artform becomes the vehicle by which those principles and realizations can radiate out into the world.”

    This part rings true. I am a perfectionist, spending hours going over and trying to refine my writing (even with posts like this). When I have a particular mode I’m trying to express or a thought I’m trying to articulate or level of creativity I’m trying to achieve, I want to be as precise, competent and accurate as possible. When it comes to art I aim to be a little more free and forgiving in my expression, but I still take my time to make sure it’s portraying exactly what I want, with the right colors, composition, etc, otherwise I will paint over it and start again. I used to do this even as a young child. My mother often tells me that when I was very young I would meticulously pick out each color and take my time drawing or painting something, but then I would stoically paint over it in black. She said I had an obsession with black, and yes I still do. It’s almost like if I don’t find my higher purpose through that mode of expression I just start the process over, or end it and look elsewhere.  I tend to over think and over analyze everything, even my art, which can often hinder the process. Sometimes I can get into the flow of my art or dancing or writing and just let it go without trying to control it, so it feels more natural and free, like I’ve tapped into my creative juices; I’ve found the source. This happens more easily when I am not stressed out, which I’ve found that meditation, exercise and taking psychedelics helps with in finding clarity, peace of mind and a freer way of expression.

     

    “When you’re not flowing, you will tend to revert back to your isolationist tendencies, which emerge from your innate reservation and privacy. In this state you resist the world and retain your own mental autonomy, coveting your own resources and having a cognitive barrier between the inner and outer. You can easily exist in this state for long periods of time if you allow it, but will ultimately feel a hollowness emerge from it since it’s imperative to you that you retain both your mental autonomy, as well as the capacity to interface with the world meaningfully through expression.”

    This explains so much. I have tended to go back and forth in this mode throughout my life. I can think of many years where I was stuck in that feeling of hollowness and isolation, yet my desire to feel consistency, stability, in control, and protected kept me there.

    “You’re not the most industrial personality, and making a living represents a powerful challenge to you since working outside of your very niche passions will feel like a suffocation and a sin to your essence. Worse still, productive output is something that must happen organically and unforced for you. You feel at your best when you connect intimately to a seamless flow, where your exploration of the environment happens in real-time with no friction, hesitation or delays between “self” and “world.””

    Ugh. Yes. This is something I’ve always struggled with. I’ve changed my degree many times because I was torn between wanted to do something I enjoyed and also apply it in a practical manner, and hated having to be forced into something in order to make money. Working in customer service jobs feels like death, so draining having to pander to idiotic demanding people, being beholden to a corporation that sees you as a replaceable cog in the machine, just so you can sleep and eat and pay rent, to continue the cycle of being a cog in this meaningless dystopia where we are slaves to money and then we die. There’s more to life than having a career, yet who has the time when we’re wasting it just trying to survive. That’s why I’m involved in politics, to potentially change this system that keeps working class in poverty and only benefits those at the top.

    “And yet another personal struggle will exist in you when it comes to the manifestation of change in the world towards a great organizational truth. Although your self-expression represents one form of embodiment of truth in the world, the ideological and political spheres will also evoke a deep yearning in you and desire for the practical elevation of humanity towards your higher principles of being. Subjects such as world peace, the transformation of humanity towards sustainable forms of living, and the evolution of consciousness to untold heights, will preoccupy your daydreams. But your own attitude will be faint and internalized, making it difficult to compete in the political sphere or make an impact in the big executive world in the way that it forces solutions to arise.”

    Yes, I do tend to get passionate about political and social movements, revolutions, radical change that will transform society for the better, including advancements of technology, improving the system that keeps people in poverty, and getting rid of the class inequality, implementing universal healthcare like the rest of the developed world, reaching our potential as a species, futurism, AI, and sustainable cities. All of these things inspire me to want to get involved, but I don’t feel confident enough to truly make an impact or know where to begin. It helps that I can do these things over the internet and in my day to day interactions. It makes me feel like I’m impacting things a little, even if I’m not mobilizing anything in a huge way. It’s safer and less draining for me to just sit back, analyze, share things and debate online, than to do anything that involves dealing with external expectations and obligations.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Nyx.
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    In my personal experience I find many groundbreaking artists with perfected crafts are Pe. With or without developed Ji functions. To name a few that I know best: Trent Reznor, Jeff Beck and Jeff Martin are all groundbreaking artists. Lzzy Hale has mastered a sound, Amy Lee, Aurora, and so on. Some of these artists have Ji and some don’t.  @Devon is a member here who is Pe lead without any J, and spent a lot of time making his website represent him perfectly. Although his style is more vague and “Ne splatter” style, notice the writing in between the paintings and how much depth of meaning there is, even without J functions.

    http://www.devonfarber.com/artwork.html

    You’ve all seen my website too. https://ericaxenne.com

    Some of the Ji lead members here who are artists either don’t have websites or their websites don’t show this much extensive organization, meticulous representation of meaning, etc.  Of course there are some Ji leads who do this (Prince, Michael Jackson, Bjork, Jared Leto etc) and probably some on this website. @Auburn  – you yourself are an excellent example of someone whose work is meticulously laid out, but you have developed two extroverted functions and you have talked about how this organization in public didn’t come naturally for you, if I’m not mistaken?  I’ve always had an in-depth website since I was a teen, even when I had to write complicated html in order to build one in the 90s. I just figured out how to do it one step at a time and made sure there was an analysis of the meaning of my work available at any era in my life. Most of the screenshots of my old websites are extremely artistic in and of themselves, since in the 2000s’ I built them in various adobe programs from scratch. Even the site itself was an art to show the art to show the art to show the art. There was always meaning upon meaning upon meaning. Each color, shape, or layout choice had a meaning which was related to the art it was showcasing.  I continuously develop my system of shapes, colors, elements, and meanings, or allow it to develop organically and then incorporate it into my internal language. Devon has been this way too since I first met him in 2001.  I see the same in SO MANY Pe lead artists and Ji does not seem to be a necessary component. When Devon and I go on about these depths of meaning, Ivory’s eyes glaze over. He doesn’t have patience for this.

    Now of course you could say making websites is “extraverting.” But then there’s another part of this. In Michael Jackson’s interviews for example, when asked about the meaning of his work, he often says he just wants the audience to have fun. Or he says something vague.. like, “It’s about love.” So many Ji leads say things like this, whereas I find Pe leads really focusing on delivering some message from the aether. Pe and Pi are, after all, pattern recognition. The idea of an evolving thread of meaning is pervasive. For Ji, meaning is something singular, boundaried and absolute.

    One possible way to address this (in my head at least, and I’m still mulling over it) is that Ji leads are much slower to commit to ‘having found the meaning,’ whereas Pe leads may sense meaning and then incorporate it into a language of meaning.  Ji is still making sure that ‘meaning’ is really really really the meaning before they put it out there. I also see some nihilism here, in the sense that you can’t just give something meaning –  you have to make sure it really really really really means that before you move forward. So then when asked, what does your art mean? – they might say, I just want to move people. Or, I just want to have fun. Or, I want to show this particular aesthetic and how it mixes with another aesthetic.  However Pe leads will elaborate extensively on “The Meaning.” And see this process as an evolving thing.

    I know I said something similar in my old post on this thread but having thought about it for a few days I really felt a need to emphasize it. The rest of the post is not something I directly relate to and yet it seems good for the Ji leads I know. Ivory did a good breakdown of his experience but that is closer to what I see in Ji leads on the whole. But when it comes to art, Ivory does not have the patience I do. I’ve been editing my book for 10 years. I was like this long before we theorized that I developed Ji.  I still haven’t released any of my 400 page books because none are good enough to do justice to the vision. Etc.  My perfectionism is definitely the enemy of my progress.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
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    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
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    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
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    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Animal.
    Ivory
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    I want to add some more nuance to what I posted above. I’ve reflected some more on this and had a few discussions about it with @Animal.

    So, overall it’s an excellent draft. The one real hang-up I have is the label of “artist,” or the inclination toward the artistic. I mentioned that that particular point applies more to @Animal – and to @devon, as she has pointed out – than it does to me, and both of them are Pe lead.

    I have never considered myself an artist. Perhaps I am ‘artistic,’ as I have a good eye for color and composition, but art has never been a major interest of mine. Art is a secondary interest, really; it’s something I do for fun, not for any serious uncovering of “Ji truths.” It’s the Pe leads in my life who seem to be more serious about art.

    The emphasis I would like to add is where I had explained how my particular “Ji truths” are shaped through my mind-body philosophy. This is something I have always been very serious about, but it’s difficult to put a name to it. I suppose one way to say it is that the way of Being is my primary interest.  How-to-be? How-to-be-me? I am hyper-aware of how I walk and talk. I modify how I think and experiment with different mindsets to see what results I can make manifest. Handling my body differently gives way to different outlooks. I am carving out my sense of self via absorbing and resonating with other people’s emotional worlds, and discarding that which doesn’t fit my vision.

    In the arts, the closest to this paradigm may be method acting, except that I don’t use it for play, show, or… art. I’m not an actor. It’s meant as an overall fine-tuning of my experience here on earth. It’s how I read people and it’s how I type people. I create a phantasm of their person in my mind’s eye, and I introject the imagined emotions and motivations. Then I project these out in the physical realm, via subtle changes in my movements, breathing, posture, and voice. The more I understand others, I reason, the more I understand myself. And that is ultimately what I seek: to know myself.

    With that, I see why the connection to the artistic was made. But it shouldn’t carry a heavier emphasis on it than the Pe descriptions. I am not an artist.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Ivory.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Ivory.
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