Can I make my unconscious functions conscious?

Home Forums The General Hall Can I make my unconscious functions conscious?

  • Rickus
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: l-l-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I am an Se-Fi type with -I- development, so this means my auxiliary Fi and inferior Ni are unconscious. Is there a way for me to develop these functions, or is it something that cannot be changed?

    fayest42
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Actually, Auburn referenced this idea recently in this thread: https://cognitivetype.com/forums/topic/exploring-links-between-psychoanalysis-and-ct-discord-convo-port/. The short answer is “maybe, but you might not want to.” I know I’ve seen some other discussions about this elsewhere on the forum and the discord too, so you can probably find more info by doing some searching. But basically the data from the database seems to suggest that having a larger number of functions developed is not necessarily desirable. People with more functions developed do not seem to be happier or more successful in life on average. In fact there is some correlation between having 3-4 functions developed and having “fallen affect” and other evidence of psychological struggle.

    Rickus
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: l-l-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    Dear fayest42

    Woah fallen affect doesn’t sound too good. Perhaps it is more balanced if two of the four functions are unconscious, while the other two are more conscious. But alright I will take a look at the link auburn used.

    Thanks a lot.

    Wolf00
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    The relatively higher tendency of presence of flat/fallen affect in people with 3-4 developed/conscious functions contradicts the description of flat affect here, which says that individuals with flat affect tend to have 2 or 3 unconscious functions. If this information has been discovered more recently, then I think a reformulation of the description of flat affect should be done.

    • This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Wolf00.
    • This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Wolf00.
    fayest42
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    @Wolf00, true. @Auburn, does this (https://cognitivetype.com/x-1-flat-affect/) need to be fixed?

    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Yes, it needs fixing. I’ve given it a minor patch job for now, and changed this section to:

    Individuals with severe flat affect usually have a complex function development, with multiple functions often rising out from the unconscious, or having risen into consciousness. It’s unknown if the rising of more functions into consciousness is an effect or a cause of flat affect. Their relationship to these functions is always varied, but they commonly manifest as their mythological characters or narratives, and typically in their dark forms.  The conflicts between their functions may not be fully reconciled, causing the struggle of opposites to manifest in their own psychology and lead to volatility. If they’re polarized they may oscillate between the lead and polar function, and exist as a fragmented personality that expresses certain functions acutely at certain times. This fragmentation minimizes as emotional health is restored.

    ^ Even though they tend to have more functions conscious than other people, their usage of them appears to be fragmented. It’s very challenging to integrate. Integration takes a lot of work, and it’s certainly not easy for a person with low emotional health to do.

    I need to explore this topic more, but it seems to me that the reason why fallen affect individuals have more functions conscious is because they’ve faced existential peril to their native motus operandi, either from external pressure or internal pressure. And unless one is fortunate enough to have been given a wonderful childhood and unbringing, that fortifies one’s emotional world, the incoming of a function into consciousness will often cause an existential crisis because the ego has to be destroyed and rebuilt (ego-death) into a new form and a new “you” which includes the ontological truth status of the new process as somewhat synonymous with oneself.

    ~

    A change in development is literally a change in personality. It can happen naturally if the environment fosters it, or intentionally if the person wishes to change enough. But it’s not something that necessarily happens easily, although the ease of it might depend on the available support and tenderness undertaken in the process.

    In any case, I’m of the opinion that a patient should be aided/guided intelligently through such a process if it has already begun, but I’m not of the opinion that one needs to provoke it, as it could be disruptive to life. But if people wish to, that’s their own choice of course. 🙂

    Although it might be important to note that no dev level necessarily promises more joy/happiness than another — although it can. It’s contextual. If being imbalanced (i.e. double-introverted) is causing a person suffering, or suffering to those around them, and they need to balance this out with the faculties of their other functions, then I hope to provide some suggestions on how a therapist might help such a person.

    • This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Rickus
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: l-l-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    Yes I am doubly extroverted myself, yet when I was in high school I felt more reserved and socially anxious, due to being bullied and feeling ostracized. I am assuming that this is not necessarily indicative of me being an introvert, but perhaps I used my unconscious introverted functions during that time in an unhealthy manner, probably my auxiliary Fi and inferior Ni. However I’ve felt that it was more beneficial to me to be in a more extroverted state, it feels more natural to me. But I am definitely open to introspection and internal perception as well as emotional intelligence.

    What if a person only develops 3 out of the 4 functions, say Se, Fi and Te, while leaving Ni unconscious. That seems more balanced to me. But in any case as you say it is not necessarily beneficial to develop it.

    Rickus
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: l-l-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    The fallen effect also sounds a little abnormal, definitely don’t like the sound of having a fragmented personality either. I guess its more a case of me acknowledging all four functions, while remaining in the development I am. Like acknowledging both the light and the shadow if that makes sense.

    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    What if a person only develops 3 out of the 4 functions, say Se, Fi and Te, while leaving Ni unconscious. That seems more balanced to me. But in any case as you say it is not necessarily beneficial to develop it.

    Well I don’t know. I’m trying to approach the topic without any assumptions. Naturally a lot of Jugnain systems will want to say more developed functions = better. But I don’t think that’s always the case. Sometimes there can be “too many cooks in the kitchen”, as they say.

     * * *

    Anyhow, in CT it’s also the case that a person’s four functions are always working. There’s no such thing a person who “doesn’t use” one of their functions. The ‘principle of conservation of psychic energy’ (as I’ve been calling it), suggests that we all use our four functions about as much, but for some of us certain ones are ‘unconscious’, which means they exist outside of ego-consciousness, and therefore are not intimately connected to our awareness or control. You still use them, but their usage will be more fantastical than actual, and you won’t have as much deliberation (will) in deciding how they come forth in you.

    Your Ni and Fi are still working, every day and every moment. They are part of you forever, and so even if you’re leading out into the world with Se+Te, they’ll do their processing backstage and contribute to your overall experience of life.

    • This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Auburn.
    Rickus
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: l-l-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    Dear Auburn

    I see what your saying, it makes a lot of sense to me what your saying about the Ni and Fi still working, its just more of a backstage processing as you say. The fact that it is fantastical makes it even better I’d say. I think its what contributes to my subconscious mind producing these dreams and visions that are so holistic and fully formed on such profound levels for example. It makes sense that these functions are less deliberate, I don’t choose what I register on an introverted intuitive level, it happens automatically, unbidden, and with introverted feeling my values are going to be more hidden from view, I’m quite easygoing on the surface, occassionally I can get quite matter-of-fact and be very decisive in terms of extroverted thinking, but deep down my Fi will probably subconsciously act as my conscience, at least from a cognitive function point of view.

    Anonymous
    Participant
    • Type: Unknown
    • Development:
    • Attitude: Unknown

    Hmm… I feel like I have those fallen affect polarities which often make me pretty ambivalent about things and induce anxieties… [Edit: This is more accurate in the past than in the present. I’m feeling quite more peaceful and certain now about some things.]

    If having more functions conscious causes fallen affect, then maybe the question should be reversed to can you make a conscious function unconscious and how?

    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Anonymous. Reason: Typos and make clear
    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Anonymous. Reason: Explaining the ambivalence
    Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I’m not sure it would help to get rid of it.

    We don’t know yet, but one possibility is that the fallen affect is caused when the function emerges to consciousness, by the opening up of some pathways to the unconscious and a lack of proper management of the content that is streaming up to consciousness.

    Another theory is that in many cases the fallen affect was there all along and the person just developed more functions to better cope with pre-existing problems not related to function development at all.

    In each of these cases, I think making the new function(s) unconscious would not determine a reversal of the fallen affect.

    But this is purely hypothetical.

    I wonder what @Auburn thinks about it.

    It was predicted before by some members that a future trend we will encounter will be people trying to “undevelop” functions. So, it’s good you brought this up.

    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Bera.
    Ninth
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    I’m not sure that having a function developed in CT equals having it integrated.
    (Question: does integration mean something in CT?)

     

    Sometimes you have to “bare” yourself before you can “join” yourself. 

    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Ninth.
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