Attraction & the Lies About it in the Media

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  • Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • F Attitude: Unseelie

    Scenario #1: The Alpha “Average Guy”  Problem.

    Protagonist: Average guy.  A little nerdy, fun, nice, but nothing special. Likes computers and video games. Generally decent person but doofy.   Alpha NT.

    Love interest: Beautiful woman.  Too good for him.  Two personalities are possible here.

    • Motherly, kind, giving Alpha SF who challenges him to be a better human.
    • Princessy, wild Ne lead who engages flights of fancy and inspires him, but can’t be tied down. Dreamy.

    Story goes one of two ways:

    • Protagonist individuates through specific feats.  May include beating up jocks, heroic acts, doing kind things for others, self-sacrifice, getting out of his head into his body, accomplishing something specific, saving children.  Woman who was once ‘too good for him’ finally falls in love with him.
    • Exactly the same plot, except there’s a Gamma SF “dark, sensual temptress” with cigarettes and blood in her mouth, and black leather boots, tempting him. In the end, he resists this temptation in order to be loyal to the “Good” Alpha woman.

    _____

    Now, allow me to decode this lie.

    • The “Average Guy” myth.
      Some Alpha NT’s may believe they are the “average guy,” and this concept may really ring true for them. However there are lots of other guys who are just as common.
    • The “All men like Certain types of women” myth.
      Since the Protagonist is not “average” more than any other type of guy, the type of woman he wants is also not more desirable to the average man than any other type of woman.
    • The “Madonna vs. Whore” myth.
      Most women are a mixture of both. We are biologically programmed to love, to enjoy sex and to procreate; and as a species we are programmed to think and develop our own interests.
    • The “Guy has to win over a woman” myth.
      Some women know what they want and can’t be “won over.”  Also, women have to better themselves to be deserving of good men, too. We all need to individuate.

    ____

    The bottom line: There’s nothing essentially wrong with this narrative – in fiction or reality – as long as it is understood as one type of narrative among many.  There’s nothing “average” about it. It’s just one story.

    • This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Animal.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Animal.
    Faex
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • F Attitude: Seelie

    Exactly the same plot, except there’s a Gamma SF “dark, sensual temptress” with cigarettes and blood in her mouth, and black leather boots, tempting him. In the end, he resists this temptation in order to be loyal to the “Good” Alpha woman.

    LMAO, this made me lol 4 real.^^

    I have to say, though, the description overall reminded me immediately of Leonard and Penny on the Big Bang Theory; especially this:

    Scenario #1: The Alpha “Average Guy”  Problem.

    Protagonist: Average guy.  A little nerdy, fun, nice, but nothing special. Likes computers and video games. Generally decent person but doofy.   Alpha NT.

    Love interest: Beautiful woman.  Too good for him.  Two personalities are possible here.

    …….
    Princessy, wild Ne lead who engages flights of fancy and inspires him, but can’t be tied down. Dreamy.

    Only I’m not sure Penny inspires him to do anything (besides win her over, lol). But Penny is kind of a female “jock” so I think she’s more Se than Ne. (Into sports and things like that–srsly hates geeky things).

    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • F Attitude: Unseelie

    @faerie
    Hehe I don’t know the story, but that’s funny. Yeah, sometimes “inspires” doesn’t have to be direct. For instance, I can be inspired by love for someone, and knowing they exist in all their wonder, even if “what they do” doesn’t directly influence my work. This is more what I meant: “who she is” inspires him to “become who he is” to win her over.
    ___

    For anyone reading this – I have “lies” in mind for Beta, Gamma and Delta 😉   in the media, though I couldn’t articulate them all in the moment. I will try soon. Feel free to write similar things that you see!  Doesn’t matter if they’re related to type, but we can use typology as a language to discuss them.

    Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • F Attitude: Seelie

    Exactly the same plot, except there’s a Gamma SF “dark, sensual temptress” with cigarettes and blood in her mouth, and black leather boots, tempting him. In the end, he resists this temptation in order to be loyal to the “Good” Alpha woman.

    @animal – this is hilarious !

    I will not write on the forum about my experience with NeTi gamers but you might have a point. :)))

    I wish at least I was that hot. Oh, the opportunity for sweet revenge. :))

    Now, on a more serious note, many guys see me as a “seductress”. I recently had this issue with a delta guy. You know the story. Now, I am not a very motherly and homey person. But I think I act like a girl who expects respect. I honestly have no idea why this is happening to me so often.

    Oh. Maybe it’s the Pe body swaying? And the giddy giggles? Just making assumptions because I am meeting these guys on casual gaming events.  So, when we meet, I am not wearing leather boots or tempting red lipstick, I am wearing casual clothes, cat T-shirts, very normal looking dresses, stuff like that. And then I spot an Ne heavy guy and I’m thinking OMG, this guy looks so smart and fun ! <3  And after 2 hours they are asking- wanna come over and drink wine? And – no, I actually don’t want wine, I want to talk to them and play games and get to meet them. And their reaction is…confusing. :))

    Se guys seem to take less risks – weirdly. Maybe because of a better connection to the real world, they tend to see I am just having fun, rolling dice and laughing and just wishing to disconnect from ordinary life’s stress… and they take that opportunity and just inflate the fun for the moment. Maybe because they are converging their thoughts towards a desired outcome? No idea.

    About the Madonna – Whore complex – I am pretty sure it’s very common.  I think it’s more because of religious fanaticism (or because of a religious upbringing even if the guy is not a believer anymore) than connected to a particular type/quadra.

    The really funny part of this complex is that some guys will see you as Madonna and others as Whore. A friend recently told me I look so nice and like such a good and kind person ! He met me at the same event where I met the owl loving delta guy. So…how the hell does one see me like a girl you just met and then invite to your place and the other one as being very nice and kind ? 🙂 I…can’t understand it and I tend to believe at least in this case it’s not me, it’s them ! :)))

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Bera.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Bera.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Bera.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Bera.
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • F Attitude: Unseelie

    About the Madonna – Whore complex – I am pretty sure it’s very common.  I think it’s more because of religious fanaticism (or because of a religious upbringing even if the guy is not a believer anymore) than connected to a particular type/quadra.

    I completely agree with this. I’m not even blaming Alphas for this plot 😀
    It’s very popular in the media nowadays, especially in comedy, and Alphas are funnier than the rest of us, so maybe that’s why this particular brand of ‘regular guy’ caught on?

    But the Madonna/Whore stuff is way beyond type. It’s more about misogyny; and the media promotes it. This is definitely beyond quadras but I need more time to verbalize the ways that similar ‘distortions’ are presented by other quadras.

    Alpha just stands out to me the most because it’s the furthest from my own way of viewing things, I suppose.  Actually I’m sure there are brilliant Alpha writers I would love. Isn’t the writer of GOT an Alpha? I think he’s brilliant and the characters are all very realistic. He really understands womens’ problems from so many angles.  I find it impressive.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Animal.
    Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • F Attitude: Seelie

    I don’t know, I was also wondering what type he is. I should watch an interview.

    Also, I didn’t really answer what you said because I started to write about myself and people I know instead of writing about the media, haha, but your mention of alpha gamers got me triggered. ?

    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • F Attitude: Unseelie

    Before Aphrodite, there were other depictions of the “Goddess of Beauty.” In the Sumerian Tablets, this was Innanna – somewhere between Te and Se.  She was later known as Ishtar.

    She was the Goddess of War, and the way she went about warring was Se; in that she seduced men and tricked them at the last minute.  She was sent to rule over areas near India, which is why Goddesses like Kali were given importance there later, endowed with war prowess and trickster-like sexuality.  Kali embodies Se clearly.

    In these early cultures, someone like me would have been seen as the Ultimate Feminine.  😉
    Although it would be even better if I were an Sx 8 core instead of Sx 4 core, to fit that role. A little more war 😉

    Over the years, the Western cultures took the Sx and the 8 out of female ideals, and turned them into Soc or Sp style Goddesses with pristine morals.  The ultimate Sp/So 2w1 saint is Jesus’s mother who gave birth to the Messiah without having sex.

    This is, by no means, a universal, timeless way of viewing an ideal woman.

    Aphrodite is a cousin of Mary – in that Aphrodite is 2w3 So/Sx. She’s a bit more free, mirthful and joyful in most depictions, but never warlike. Compared to Innanna and Ishtar, she is more modest – instead of squeezing her privates with a taunting smirk, she covers them with a coy smile.

    Yet, Innanna was here first.

    She was depicted as Sx/So 8w7.  Lusty, dangerous, strong, seductive, magnetic, ruthless.  Her  visceral desire was Se to the bone, and her style embodied the trickster, tricking and laughing at her prey.  There were major Te themes in “justice” and cunning tactics for war, and I might place her overall as Te > Se, but she was not Fe.

    The meaning of Beauty changes over the centuries, just as the idea of “Good guy vs. Bad guy” changes over the centuries.  This is why @auburn has a good point when he brings up Western culture valuing Fe, whereas other cultures (or people with specific values) might view it through the lens of unnecessary toil.

     

    Ivory
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • F Attitude: Adaptive

    The Media has been shaping society ever since it got created, and with the recent Media Convergence that’s been going on and is only going to increase, this influence has more power than ever. These are unprecedented times in terms of mass brainwashing.

    How many different types of romance can be depicted on the screen?  VS How many different types of romance are promoted on the screen?

    That should be a clue to how warped this really is. We are being molded to become consumers instead of active agents in our lives. It is no coincidence that popular modern ‘love stories’ fit the cliches that are the Hallmark-Valentine-Cards.

    Swearing is (bleeped) out in interviews. Not because the public is that prudish, not because the public doesn’t want to hear it, but because the advertisers don’t want their products being seen in the same light.

    Consumerism controls Mass Media.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Ivory.
    Keso
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • F Attitude: Seelie

    Delta types are always portrayed as mentally disordered romantics or freaks who wander endlessly without direction and suddenly find love and die for this love 😀 For example, Cecilia from “The Virgin Suicides”.

    GreenCoyote
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: lll-
    • F Attitude: Adaptive

    Media media media. So much media.

    I LOLd at the funny part too. Good times

    Connie
    Participant
    • Type: SiTe
    • Development: l-ll
    • F Attitude: Unseelie

    I recently have been seeing a number of videos by men telling women what men want, find attractive or how to flirt with men.  They are obviously speaking from their own perspective and their advice will not fit all the different cognitive types of men.  So more “lies” about attraction, but are they lies or just their own interpretations which they assume apply to everyone?  Maybe they need some typology lessons😏

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