Reply To: Si & Inner Sensory Experiences

[Animal]

@faerie

 All it indicates to me is that they can’t see the pattern the allegedly ‘random’ person is chasing due to the Se apriori assumption of closed/absolute contexts.

Yes I agree with this completely!  "Divergent" is different though; this assessment came from Ne users themselves.  And "disparate" was a reference to the conversations in this thread about appreciating pleasures, which is connected to Si.  Notice that I did not use the word 'random.'
Personally I disagree with the idea that the two functions on an axis are completely unrelated and separate matters. Where there is a Ne user, there is Si in their psyche, and vice versa. Every person has Pi regardless of which functions are conscious, so personally when I'm describing how a function works I also keep in mind the axis since it is part of their holistic psyche, even if unconscious.  So this explains why Ni users don't seem 'random to me' at all. This isn't about S vs. N - there's a clear difference in how Ni and Ne users communicate, regardless of the first function.   In wolfpit chat, it was generally agreed that there's less topic hopping, less divergent thinking, etc.  Divergent vs. holistic thinking is a distinction between the Ne/Si psyche as a whole and the Se/Ni psyche as a whole, in any order, which has been explored at great depth on this forum and continues to be.

@faeruss
What you said makes perfect sense. I agree completely. I just get sick of descriptions that reduce Pe to a few specific types of enjoyment - such as "Se users like sports, fun and new thrills."  Especially when I don't see this kind of pattern showing up in reality.  The fact that some Se users like these things doesn't mean that it makes up the basic meat of the function.  So that's why I was pushing for going back to basics. "What is Pe? What is it actually doing?"  It's definitely more than just 'seeing what's there,' but I don't like when personal taste is ascribed to it on the level of making 'novelty,' 'escaping boredom' and 'thrills' the basis of the function.
There are so many ways that flow, focus and sensory attunement can manifest.. for instance I take long walks with headphones, listening to intense sets of songs that I put together for the purpose of processing certain emotions, or getting inside the mind of my fictional characters. Enneagram fours don't seek happiness or pleasure but, rather, explore suffering and its expression. So I use my senses to immerse myself in emotion and delve into any tragedy that affects me. The Se is still there, but it's not serving a need for pleasureful thrills, due to my personal inclinations. The specific thing that is "sought" will be different for each person, and enneagram motivation plays a part here - but Se is the primary function that allows a Se lead to discover and seek the experiences they desire. We mustn't assume everyone desires to "escape" or "be happy."
I'll copy a post of mine here that I think is relevant regarding Pe:

Spoiler

Will is not just about Je.
Will comes from inspiration.
Pe is the catalyst. The inspirer. The spark behind will. The force that drives us forward. The propellor.
The reason I like “Volition” for Se more than for Ne, is basically because of what @faerie said:

Se goes after bounded objects (what you say hunting or going after ONE thing at a time) whereas Ne follows an unbounded “object” which is more diffuse, but Ne follows it no less obsessively.  This is why “volitional force” makes sense as a descriptor for Se, because the ‘push’ is very concrete, applying to bounded objects and focused hunting.  There should be another similar word to describe the obsessive pursuit style of Ne.

Both types are inspiration driven, but Se finds bounded objects and pursuing and hunting something concrete, more interesting. This can include studying something, mastering a project – but Se is geared toward concrete tangible results in the real-world realm. This hunt makes life inspiring. The thrill of the hunt.
I cannot pretend to describe the parallel for Ne, so I will leave that to the Ne leads – but I will share my theory – based on observing them from outside – which is that Si ‘grounds’ Ne by bringing them back into their body. This happens through enjoyable, pleasurable physical sensations, among other things.  Se does not rely on ‘internal experience of sensory pleasure’ to bring them into the sensory realm.  The hunt itself – the pursuit of concrete results – is pleasurable.

[collapse]