Ti: Emotional Shutoff

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  • #17955
    Ivory
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    This is a comment to a segment from the "Behaviors Under Stress" section on the "Ti: Behaviorism & Mythology" page.
    I want to discuss this because as a Ti lead, this is extremely far from my lived experience. Under stress, I become hyper-emotional: my emotions become overwhelming, they will feel highly saturated and I will feel as though I am burning up from emotional heat, about to burst from the tension it creates. This feeling will persist for as long as the stress exists, which can last minutes or years. It is effectively the direct opposite of the emotional shutoff that is described here.
    When I read this segment I have the same idea that I had when I was reading the Void myth for Ti (which I also don't fully relate to): the idea that this isn't describing Ti, but Enneagram type 5 instead. Under stress, type 5 isolates themselves and disassociates their feelings from their lived experience. They start to intellectualize everything. Self-reliance, isolation, disconnection from emotions, avoidant of intrusions, schizoid tendencies, etc, all of this is type 5. I know people of type 5 who are not Ti leads that live through this experience of "emotional shutoff" much more than I do (I am not a type 5).
    Again, my emotional state under stress is one of persistent hyper-emotionality; opposite to the idea of Emotional Shutoff.
    I wonder how other Ti lead persons experience this / relate? How does this play out in the Ti leads you know?

    #17965
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    Yes, in enneagram a lot of 6s are Ti lead, we have noticed. And six is a reactive type, and not a withdrawn type. Sixes under stress get hyper anxious. And with a four fix, a 6 can be obscenely reactive and emotional.
    The 'shutoff' is apt for all of the withdrawn types - 4, 5, and 9 - but in different ways. 5 and 9 are fairly common for Ti as well, and both can shut off in different ways due to overwhelm.  But the specific 'coveting of the self' described is much more 5ish.  9 has more of a 'tune-out,' although 5 fixed 9s do describe something like this. One 953 we know, who was typed here as FiNe, would relate much more to this portion of the Ti description than you do, I'm sure.
    I will even mention that as a 5 fixer who is a withdrawn core, I also relate to it - though I shut off empathy and receptivity to others, not my own emotions. It's more about coveting my own inner self, including emotion, and shutting out the world.
    It's easily among the best type five descriptions I've seen though, if not the best. Funny how that can happen when someone isn't looking hehe.

    #17970
    Cosmo
    Participant
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Directive

    Yes, I am enneagram 5w6 tritype 593 so/sx and relate to the emotional shutoff part of the Ti description. It's interesting you made that parallel, and it's very fitting to enneagram 5. Similarly with the Fi description, particularly the emotional permeability part, sounds like type 9.

    #17972
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @Cosmo
    Agree, now that I think about it. I never related to the emotional permeability, although I have high empathy. But I'm a four with 8, so I introject the dramatic feelings into my own inner world and make art from it, rather than lose my sense of self, which simply does not happen for me. Four with nine fix might relate better.  The parts of Fi I relate to are the sense of capturing something so deeply personal in my art that it ends up being universal, because it's so deeply human. And that comes from my experience of myself and the emotions I introject, rather than from actually being sensitive about the world as a whole.

    #18038
    Ninth
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    I can totally relate to the Emotional Shutoff thing but I'm also generally detached. As soon as I experience something emotional, I start "analyzing" it instead of feeling it; I may "feel" later in time, once I let myself do so. I don't trust emotions, that's why this happens.
    Under stress, the shutoff is due to: dude, can't deal with so many things at once; I'll sacrifice the one that I judge as needlessly expensive.
    P.S.: I usually score 512/582 on tritypes test; been typed 6w5 3w4 9w(forgot) in Enneatude.

    #18060
    Quin
    Participant
    • Type: NiTe
    • Development: l---
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I agree, that section contains some artful description of type 5. Disconnection was the centerpoint of my youth, and I still turn to it in environments or with people I don't trust such as my workplace. I constantly, compulsively (especially as an unconscious behavior) hide myself and don't let people get to know me. I solve my issues alone.
    I can still see how the description is warped through a Ti/Fe lens, though, because at my most disconnected from the world, it is still driven by a connection to self. I know what in my life I value and even covet - I have Fi-dar under the hood that drives this behavior. It's that side I don't need the untrusted to see, especially in force - they get to know nothing of my passions or truth, only the mechanical thing that works on the world around it with dispassionate competence.  I guess I fail to form or recognize connections with others in the first place when I don't attach to them or their environment.

    #18079
    Ninth
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    @q I'd like to ask you if you experience any change specifically when you're under stress, for two reasons:

    • the article is “Ti under stress” and you said «I can still see how the description is warped through a Ti/Fe lens», but
    • I can relate to what you've said (...)

    I know what in my life I value and even covet – I have Fi-dar under the hood that drives this behavior. It’s that side I don’t need the untrusted to see, especially in force – they get to know nothing of my passions or truth, only the mechanical thing that works on the world around it with dispassionate competence.

    (...) in general; that is, when I'm not under stress.


    I want to add that I also had experiences similar to @ivory's

    Under stress, I become hyper-emotional: my emotions become overwhelming, they will feel highly saturated and I will feel as though I am burning up from emotional heat, about to burst from the tension it creates. This feeling will persist for as long as the stress exists, which can last minutes or years.

    when I was driving an extraverted Persona; I became over-sensitive to outer stimuli. That's to suggest: there may be other factors at play for behaviors.

    #18086
    Quin
    Participant
    • Type: NiTe
    • Development: l---
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @Ninth
    I was under stress my whole childhood. I perceived my family as intrusive. It felt like I never had enough time alone, because I had my mother supervising all my studies for school and telling me what to do in the car, and the family drama always trying to drag me in at the table and so on, so I snuck alone time wherever and whenever I could - I built a fortress of a shell around my mind, being and mental tools (such as computer or books) to get my own space.
    I get what you're saying though, I suppose, as this is a long-term habitual stress response. When my stress is from a source that is more pressing in the short-term, I may also scatter in the pursuit of escape. I'll throw my mind into whatever looks like it will give me back my privacy and my sanity and the worse it gets, the more I also try to reaffirm power over (or through) self. This is not in opposition to closing myself off, however - they both occur in tandem. I shut off the source of offense and veer alone towards wherever I've scattered.

    #18102
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @Nintheme
    Tritype tests are useless. But also, our typing in Enneatude was tentative and still in the works. We usually get to know someone and do a couple of rehashing sessions before committing to someone's typing. I think I emailed you the new link to the forum where we work now if you ever want to revisit. We have also learned a lot since then.

    #18115
    Ninth
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    Thanks @q for replying. I've got nothing else to say for now.


    Hi @animal! :3
    I stated that those were the types I got from [sources] precisely to avoid an unnecessary layer of ambiguity: I don't think any was conclusive.

    But also, our typing in Enneatude was tentative and still in the works. We usually get to know someone and do a couple of rehashing sessions before committing to someone’s typing.

    Well, there's fault of my own because I am really slow at opening, especially if I don't feel I've become familiar with the environment yet; which could also never happen. I'm such a lurker precisely because I need to observe a lot.

    I think I emailed you the new link to the forum where we work now if you ever want to revisit. We have also learned a lot since then.

    Yes! I've visited the website a couple of times, actually, with the intention of joining; but the fact that it's a public place honestly makes me uncomfortable. ^^'

    #19552
    fayest42
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Aha! That could explain my situation, as an enneagram 5 Fi-lead who relates to a lot of Ti stuff, including the emotional shutoff under stress. I do wonder if being unseelie plays into this too though. There are so many different things playing into our personality that it becomes really difficult to tease out which is which.
    If there is any correlation between having Ti and being an enneagram 5, then statistically we would see a correlation between 5-characteristics and Ti-users even though those characteristics are not truly Ti-characteristics. Eventually it would be useful to include enneagram type in the database of typed people so that we could better see which psychological traits come from enneagram type and which come from cognitive functions.

    #19554
    Cosmo
    Participant
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Directive

    @fayest42 While I like the idea of including one's enneagram along with their CT in theory, there's no official consensus or way of knowing for sure if they're accurately typed in enneagram or if they're mistyped.

    #19555
    fayest42
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    @cosmo Indeed, that is a problem, and I have no solution. I wonder if enneagram can be typed vultologically...

    #19556
    Cosmo
    Participant
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Directive

    I think it could potentially get there one day with lots of psychological mapping to make the process more concrete and empirical like CT. But at the moment I'd say the process is more intuitive and observational for most Enneagram teachers.
    Edit: I'm not really sure it's possible to codify enneagram in the same systematic approach as CT. Especially when the instincts and tritype can influence the core type. There seems to be a lot more nuance and complexity to it that can't be pinned down in a linear approach. But maybe there will be something more concrete in the future.

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