NeFi's with Social Anxiety

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  • #7384
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Hello,
    I've been wanting to do this for a while. Here are a few examples that I feel truly elucidate the differences between social introversion (i.e. social anxiety) and cognitive introversion/extroversion, using NeFi's as an example.
    Here is Jaiden Animations!
    (but first, before showing clips of the social anxiety, I wanted to show some of the Ne dominance)

    Ne-Lead

    Social Anxiety ("Social Introversion")


    There are many more like this on her channel. Notice that she self-classifies as an introvert, but is quite strongly NeFi and not Fi-lead. Now she is very camera shy so we don't have too much footage to go with (although there is some) but we can see her functions apparent in images such as this collage:

    What I wish to make note of is how, despite her reluctance to engage in the social sphere and awkwardness in interaction, her mind is constantly object-oriented, exploratory, quirky and animated. She explores ideas and hops from idea to idea without regard for a destination (P), doesn't slow down / overthinks, and is a classic Ne space cadet. (I say this with great affection ^^)
    Cognitive introversion is the lack of engagement (withdrawal) from the object, whatever kind of object it may be. It is a pull away from reality and this includes the many substances (not just people) that are found within it. So to give a behavioral example, cognitive introversion might seen in the act of reading a paragraph of a book and needing to sit there mulling over that paragraph for an hour to try to grasp how it fits into one's existing framework or shapes it in subtle ways. Extroversion would be the act of breezing through the whole book in a few hours due to being "engaged with the object". But "social introversion" would be the act of choosing to stay indoors reading a book, rather than go out with friends. We can see here that in the first two cases, the person is being socially introverted, but in the second case they are still "soaking in reality" so to speak.
    Are any of you NeFi's with social anxiety? What's it like having a combination of natively proactive energy, but difficulties interfacing with people?

    #7395
    Keso
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    Nice videos, can relate.
    I know so many NeFi person with the social anxiety! They think they are introverts. I also was one of them. I thought I was an "introvert" for a long, long time until I found Vultology and differentiated my anxiety from my cognitive extraversion.

    What’s it like having a combination of natively proactive energy, but difficulties interfacing with people?

    From the early age, I was an active child - mentally, not physically.  I liked to paint, to play musical instruments, reading, especially encyclopedias, writing, composing scenarios and role-playing... I liked gathering children from my yard and give them roles for my plays. I hated sport and I lacked the ability to put everything into action. I had lots of plans and ideas for our prom and even wrote a spectacle for our prom, but they thought my ideas were unrealistic and silly so I preferred to stay quiet. I learned to stay quiet because I wanted everyone to perceive me as a realistic girl with realistic ambitions. Meanwhile I liked to participate in fantasy competitions and I won all of them. They liked my fantasy and absurdistic-funny writing style. Comedy, Satire - those are my writing preferences.
    I tend to adapt on others ideas too and I find everything possible. I rarely say "No" because I honestly find this idea very realistic and know exactly how to make it happen, but I also need validation from others. and motivation. Maybe it's the weak side of my personality. I don't have many friends, but I have 1200+ "friends" on Facebook, 97% of them are just acquaintances. I'm quite shy and timid, even with my friends. I have difficulties communicating with people, so I put my rich mental energy into artistic and creative activities. I have my typology society in my country and have intellectual, mentally stimulating relations with the crowd more than personal ones. So yeah, I'd love to answer other questions as well!
     
     
     

    #7451
    Elsie
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    "Cognitive introversion is the lack of engagement (withdrawal) from the object, whatever kind of object it may be. It is a pull away from reality and this includes the many substances (not just people) that are found within it. So to give a behavioral example, cognitive introversion might seen in the act of reading a paragraph of a book and needing to sit there mulling over that paragraph for an hour to try to grasp how it fits into one’s existing framework or shapes it in subtle ways"

    im still working-through stuff from books i read 2+ years ,ago to get it to "fit right" and things i've watched/experienced from god knows how long back trying to "fit" it into life. (generally similar topics - "HOW DOES THE WORLD WORK?") . i'm doing biblestudy atm and have been picking that apart for a good-time now. mainly to get a better view of another set of books i read/crossreference.
    i'm not sure i have the right words to explain this process, vocabulary isn't great (always trying to improve, so give me a bell if you got anything helpful regarding that)
    also i don't think i have social anxiety (i did when i was younger), im just very impatient/disinterested and want to get straight to the point of things. i can play-nice but i'd much rather just interrogate and get things and go.
    in silence im usually considering the implications of what is being said (wellbeing , common sense , the "right direction)", "what page are we on", "whats the plan" etc, how many asses do i have to save today, mindful of errors and useless/frivilous ventures
    not so much of a talker as far as that [social] goes, unless i can do/advise something about the situation, or playing the temporary social-role (bring everyone together and get stuff snowballing/organized into something - the cheerful smalltalk, or i will entertain myself as you are prolly familiar with :P)

    "Extroversion would be the act of breezing through the whole book in a few hours due to being “engaged with the object”. "

    here can relate, trying to find specific information either reference material or a question to something that needs answering with "missing piece" of information, something i've been working-on for a while, i.e. particulars on religious/spiritual (world-physics?) or historical/myth settings/groundwork of which learning, diagnosing an issue (biology,medicine,permaculture,animal-care,psychology and health in general), always built on something, i'm really unsure if this is Fi or Si or something else

    #7452
    Spaceman
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: l---
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Are any of you NeFi’s with social anxiety? What’s it like having a combination of natively proactive energy, but difficulties interfacing with people?

    Well, I don't find that I have a lot of natural proactive energy. As a young child, I played outside and rough-housed a bit with some of the neighborhood kids, but by the time I was 7 years old or so, I was spending almost all of my time reading books or playing video games, usually with some sort of a fantasy theme. On that note...

    So to give a behavioral example, cognitive introversion might seen in the act of reading a paragraph of a book and needing to sit there mulling over that paragraph for an hour to try to grasp how it fits into one’s existing framework or shapes it in subtle ways. Extroversion would be the act of breezing through the whole book in a few hours due to being “engaged with the object”

    I often get stuck re-reading certain paragraphs and it usually takes me quite a while to finish a book, although I've had times where I was able to finish a book relatively quickly if I was greatly enjoying it and engaged with it. I sort of relate to the introverted example here, except for the fact that I'm not necessarily trying to fit anything into a framework or understand it. More likely, I'm just not absorbing what I'm reading and have to go back and read it again until it sticks (sometimes the same couple paragraphs several times until my brain starts working again.)
    I can relate to the woman in your post when she talks about how she refuses to ask someone in a store for help and would rather try to look things up on her phone or walk up and down every aisle until she finds what she's looking for. I've gotten better with that as I've gotten older, but I will generally waste time looking for something myself before asking for help.
    I was painfully anxious about interacting with people growing up after many failed interactions, although there were a handful of specific people I was comfortable around. Some people I would joke around with when I was in a good enough mood, I often liked to make people laugh, and I still do. I spent most of my time playing video games online for both social interaction and entertainment. Later on, there was a small group of people I would hang out with occasionally but I spent most of my time alone, not really talking to anybody except online friends who I played video games with.
    At this point in my life, whatever extraverted energy I have pushes me to find people online to talk to and discuss topics of interest with, although after an initial burst of interaction where I integrate into a community or something, I generally withdraw back to my state of quiet non-interaction, unless there is something that catches my interest or prompts me to engage. Social interaction is usually limited to casual humor. I can't exactly relate to the whole quirky/zany/whacky attitude and bouncing from idea to idea. Not a lot of things catch my interest and I find my mind to move at a fairly plodding pace, although sometimes an interesting thought or joke drops into it, or an interesting connection is made.

    #7455
    Shelley Lorraine
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    So to give a behavioral example, cognitive introversion might seen in the act of reading a paragraph of a book and needing to sit there mulling over that paragraph for an hour to try to grasp how it fits into one’s existing framework or shapes it in subtle ways. Extroversion would be the act of breezing through the whole book in a few hours due to being “engaged with the object”.

    And I begin with a derail from the get go XD Don't worry, I'll swing back around to topic. But I have to comment on this, because this example doesn't apply to me. Eric, Si lead, breezes through books like no body's business. He doesn't stop to highlight, ponder, write in the margins, absorb the beautiful poetry of language in slow motion.
    Then there's me, ostensibly an Ne lead ;p and I am a very very slow reader. I am physically capable of reading 275+ wpm, but I spend a lot of time pondering, especially in texts that are emotionally heavy. I wallow in the weight of the words. I stop to write notes, to interact with the author, and to "grasp how it fits into [my] existing framework."
    Ok, now onto topic. Social anxiety:

    Are any of you NeFi’s with social anxiety? What’s it like having a combination of natively proactive energy, but difficulties interfacing with people?

    I have long considered myself a social introvert until very recently. After all my deep soul searching and the conversations inspired by my time with this CT group, I am reconsidering. I haven't lost my social anxiety, but I am more aware of what triggers it. I can chat it up all night with people I "get" - my peers, hobby groups, etc. And afterwards, I don't need the recoup period that Eric needs. I feel energized by the experience.
    However, even among my "own people" I have a history of shy behavior. I try to be noticed, but struggle to make contact. I take full advantage of any bone thrown my way to get things rolling, but if I get no lead into participation, it can still be a struggle. I don't feel anxiety in these cases though, just a lack of self-confidence.
    The anxiety sets in when among the generic muggle masses or groups of people far removed from my peer groups. I love people. I wish I could interact with them all. It pains me when I play for a recital at a home for the elderly, and everyone else freely interacts with the residents while I creep around in dark corners after the performance, possible serving ice cream or making myself otherwise busy. I would love sooo much to be like my mother (tentatively popcorn typed as a NeFi - but she is textbook extrovert and can connect with people like no one else I know). I want to make those connections. The romantic ideal of hearing stories of old from people generations older than me.... but, I don't know how. I don't have the social toolset. And this is what causes the anxiety. When I feel alien, I freeze up. I will return home with a headache, a stomach ache, often both. I'll need that rest and recoup period that introverts need.
    Out in general plebeian space, the anxiety isn't as much feeling alien (though I still do), it's more the excessive input of stimuli from all directions that wears me down - a physical exhaustion caused by overworking my learned-but-not-natural social behaviors (nb. I have a diagnosed ASD). I have learned much of the social tools necessary to navigate a day at the mall. The smiles and waves, the courteous replies to three hundred fifty two sales people asking if I need assistance, the thanks but no thanks I must give all the kiosk traps along the way. But by the time I return home, all I can think is that I will never go to the mall again. It's exhausting. It's not the same kind of anxiety I have when obliged to strike up a conversation with an elder or someone I don't otherwise relate to.
    I feel obliged to comment on my typing video, for anyone who may remember it, wherein I said that in high school, I was happy so long as people noticed my ridiculous attempt at making a show of myself, but I didn't need interpersonal connections. A lot of my attitude there is of a "well, fine, I didn't want the tasty brownie with sprinkles anyway!!" sort. I mean, I wasn't terribly broken up about it, I had my internal world and made the best of it, but I wouldn't have minded more inclusion and interpersonal connection ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    ETA - lol, I just noticed I'm not the first to respond to the book example first XD
     

    #7460
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    ETA – lol, I just noticed I’m not the first to respond to the book example first XD

    Heh! I'm glad the book example has been picked apart - as it should be.  Shoot, I realized now I was way too general with it, but now I'm seeing in what ways. I can totally see how reading for an Ne-lead would be like that too. I suppose the nuance I was trying to capture could be summed up in the "why" of the pausing, where Ne (the function) does it more because of:

    • Overthinking
    • Reviser doubt / Confusion
    • Ne divergence

    As we see in Jaiden Animation's example, she overthinks about real-life scenarios all the time. A lot of things in reality don't make sense, and there's plenty of time spent in open-ended pondering. And then the mind goes into adjacent tangents to try to "make sense" of it excessively. So reading one paragraph which has multiple interpretations, implications and considerations can be arduous to "grasp" and can cause hours of thinking about "how it fits in" with other things -- indeed. Yet this is still real-time object-manipulation (E), cognitively speaking.
    So the point I was trying (failing) to make is different. What you guys brought up seems more related to reading comprehension and in "making sense" of the text itself; what the author meant and how it's to best be interpreted. Whereas if it is a Ji or Pi function handling the data, the task is to weigh the text against either a paradigm (J) or a worldview (P) for coherence, harmony, and personal resonance. In the case of Ji, the text (after being properly comprehended) poses a personal challenge to the subject -- "is that true for me?", "where do I put that in my castle?". The subject resists the object (the idea) if it is opposed to the subject's understanding of reality or themselves. So there may be paradigmatic reconstruction & reformatting needed if it's allowed integration. Like having a firmware update. Or it may lead to rejecting the idea and the update if it fails to pass the filter. The same happens with Pi if the postulated text is incoherent with their view of life's unfolding narrative.
    But that said, I was aiming for an example of introversion, not of introverts, since as we know we all have access to our four functions, and having a conscious Ji function would trigger the same experience. FiNe ll-- and NeFi ll-- would both have plenty of both Pe+Ji experiences going on, each of which can apparently cause pausing/thinking upon reading, now that I think about it.
    (Oh gosh I totally derailed things... I wanna stay on the topic of NeFi's)

    So yeah, I’d love to answer other questions as well!

    Okay! 🙂 I'll steer things back with a followup question:
    How would most people describe you? (i.e. antisocial? hermetic? ...or.. bubbly when she's comfortable, stiff when she's not? ;p)
    What reputation do you have amongst a group of people?

    #7466
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    Yeah - I'm not NeFi, but PeFi - and I'm often seen as "shy weird artist." I'm intensely open and present when the conversation is real, but in other situations, even my introverted friends have critiqued me for being so incredibly closed off. According to some, I "don't even try."
    I don't have anything to say, oftentimes, because I'm no good at random small talk. Either I'm going to say something that matters to me, or I'm not going to talk at all. Not because I'm a snob, but because I really cannot think of 'pointless' or 'light hearted' things to say, and I can't keep up with random quick topic changes or "this thing, that thing" style banter.  In my mind all things are connected to the core issues. I just can't force myself to topic-hop, to follow a string of random this-and-thats, or to just make things up. So conversation must be meaningful and focused, or else I have nothing to say.
    What ends up happening then, in effect, is I don't get into conversations with people unless they're inviting this. I'm polite and appropriate, but I can't keep up with dialogue that doesn't immerse me.  So I end up being quiet around most strangers, or sometimes even having nothing to say in my own social groups.  When I was single and went to social events, I would often pull one person aside, or just write in my own notebook.  I would go there to chase one guy, or to play music, and then I'd be stuck there and so I kept people away by burying my head in something on my own.  I also have deterrents in public places, like huge headphones, diaries, books and prickly glares.  I don't like being approached for small talk and I try to minimize the likelihood of it.
    Being married has helped with this, since we just talk to each other and observe people together. When people come up to talk to us, they usually have something to say; otherwise they don't interrupt our make-out sessions.
    Extroversion would be a hard sell to people in my life.

    #7479
    Spaceman
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: l---
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    How would most people describe you?

    People have always kind of described me as antisocial. My mother and siblings always accused me of it, probably reinforcing my perception of myself as "antisocial." I have always considered myself to be an introvert, and didn't doubt it until being typed under the CT model.
    When the social anxiety wanes, I find that I have no problem interacting with people. I rarely go out of my way to talk to anybody, and I suspect that I normally don't seem very approachable (blank or unsettled look on my face?) but I'm always willing to engage with people or respond to them, although it might take a few minutes to "get on the same frequency." I've been told recently that I "really know how to work a crowd" so obviously I can be charismatic and sociable when I want to be, and can even manage peoples' reactions and perceptions to a fairly significant degree. Others have noted that I can be physically/facially expressive sometimes when I'm engaged or happy (i.e. bouncing my head around, humming to myself, etc). I tend to have a very lazy/relaxed/chilled-out presentation unless things get particularly tense. Really the primary social issue that I have is when my unexpected/irrational behavior confuses or irritates people, as I often have trouble listening, or don't want/don't know how to behave in an "appropriate manner," or my thoughts get jumbled or mixed up.

    #7486
    Elsie
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    "Whereas if it is a Ji or Pi function handling the data, the task is to weigh the text against either a paradigm (J) or a worldview (P) for coherence, harmony, and personal resonance. In the case of Ji, the text (after being properly comprehended) poses a personal challenge to the subject — “is that true for me?“, “where do I put that in my castle?”. The subject resists the object (the idea) if it is opposed to the subject’s understanding of reality or themselves. So there may be paradigmatic reconstruction & reformatting needed if it’s allowed integration. Like having a firmware update. Or it may lead to rejecting the idea and the update if it fails to pass the filter. The same happens with Pi if the postulated text is incoherent with their view of life’s unfolding narrative."

    do i have more jipistuff-things going on than i thought. how do you even read a book otherwise? <_< oh damn

    Okay! I’ll steer things back with a followup question:
    How would most people describe you? (i.e. antisocial? hermetic? …or.. bubbly when she’s comfortable, stiff when she’s not? ;p)

    most ppl in-person describe me as cheerful+nervous+weird. and formal. although that's all mood-dependant, i think that's a great combonation to start with. i play-along with the weird cause im aggro. strangers tell me im assertive,wise,happy/carefree spIrItUaL MagIC etc. like srsly they walk up to me to tell me that.
    im friendlyneighborhoodspiderman who also interrogate everything that move. great with kids but butt-heads with anything else.
    i live in a village as a farmer/resident-gaia-goddess so im counting that plus whatever group im working with or around at the time/wider internet circle. i adopt ppl quick/temporarily but have very low interest in interaction otherwise (bah humbug), as i said beforehand. getting involved without getting involved-involved.
    though wanting to teach usually behind something.
    physical issues keep me from things a lot but that doesn't stop megaphone + get other ppl to do stuff for me + i make up for lost time.
    i've also been called hostile,distant,impatient (all of which i agree with), but i'm just gonna focus on the positive here.
    words that get thrown around,
    clever
    caring
    energetic
    friendly
    intelligent
    proud
    wise
    witty

    What reputation do you have amongst a group of people?

    #7499
    Lumi
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    How would most people describe you? (i.e. antisocial? hermetic? …or.. bubbly when she’s comfortable, stiff when she’s not? ;p)

    Actually, yes! I think the description is kind of similar to what's in the brackets. Some people at school tell me that I'm pretty cold, reserved and weird when they first meet me. I think that has to do with the way I school my expression into something more cold, so other people will not be able to see who I am and how I feel. Furthermore, I don't really initiate conversations. Kind of like Jaiden, I avoid the store employees and try to find whatever it is I need myself, haha. I think I'm afraid of potential reactions the other person may have if I do converse with them. I think my voice tends to be quiet as well when conversing as some people have already pointed that out, hoho.
    My parents tell me that I'm anti-social and that I stay at home too much. They often compare my current version to my younger self. I think I was more sociable with my family and friends when I was younger. But one thing hasn't really changed: how I acted in school. Ever since I started kindergarten, I became a bit reserved because I didn't really know anyone there and was too afraid to talk to anyone. To this day, my teachers still write that I'm very quiet in class, that I work best in small groups and that I am not a risk-taker. My parents and tutors tell me that I can overthink in certain situations. They say that "IT'S GOING TO BE FINE" and that I'm "GOING TO BE OKAY," haha. Oh, and my friends say that I can be sort of outgoing, but that I'm also becoming more reserved each year? I think my social anxiety is getting better though.... I'm not too sure. :p
    Hoho, I hope I kind of answered that question?

    #7501
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    @xxilluminisxx yes, it does! Thanks so much for pitching in (and stepping out into the light ;p)
    So when you do feel comfortable around others, what kind of interactions do you like having? (Playful, silly ones? Intensely personal ones? Nerdy/Geeky ones? Philosophical ones?)

    #7510
    Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    This thread is about NeFis but I thought I could jump in too because I used to make exactly this confusion between social introversion and social introversion. :)) (which was one of the reasons I believed I was an INFP :)) )
    Basically, I am socially introverted but cognitively extroverted. So, especially when I was younger, I preferred to stay home and read a book to going out with friends. And I was very shy and awkward. This changed when I moved to Bucharest and got a job at a lawyers' office where I had to work with two very strong and a bit aggressive lawyers who expected me to become more like them and mentioned it extremely often. :)) So, I figured something needed to be done to be able to keep that job. And I started playing DnD and going out more. I believe socializing more made me less socially anxious and the difference is quite high because now no one would believe I am a social introvert and 3 years ago it would have been obvious.
    Now I usually make the extra effort to be more outgoing. For example, in the shop I feel very uncomfortable about asking where I can find a product but I make the conscious effort to go and ask, because I know it's more important for me to become a truly confident person than to feel safe for 2 minutes. 🙂
    When I don't think about it at all, I tend to act like a social introvert by default. Like...once I heard a neighbor had entered the building and was coming to the elevator, so I rushed up the stairs just to not be forced to spend 30 seconds with him in the elevator. :))
    But when I realize that I am in a challenging situation that I must bravely face, I make the necessary effort to face it. So, when arriving to the elevator, I know an awkward situation will follow and I realize I must build the moral resolve and strength to endure it 😛 So, I wait for my neighbors to get in with me and force myself to say something about the weather or ask about their dog. :)) And most people have wonderful reactions, they are happy to tell me that their dog is doing well and that it will soon stop snowing. 🙂 And I feel better about myself for connecting with people and sharing heartfelt moments instead of running away from them or closing the elevator doors in front of their nose. :)) It makes me feel stellar. :p :))
    But from a cognitive point of view, I am Pe lead, so I mostly engage with objects. (is this right? I mean I don't compare them to some inner framework, I just enjoy them as they are in real time)  I had moments when I read a paragraph and pondered how it would fit with the things I believe in or with my world view but most of the times I just keep reading. 🙂
    I think the distinction is very important though. This is why many people are reluctant to believe they are extroverts. Because they think that they can't be cognitive extroverts AND social introverts.
    @xxilluminisxx - I also became more reserved in my teens ! Maybe it's also age related, because I was more outgoing as a kid. And I am more outgoing now too.

    #7511
    Keso
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    Okay! I’ll steer things back with a followup question:
    How would most people describe you? (i.e. antisocial? hermetic? …or.. bubbly when she’s comfortable, stiff when she’s not? ;p)

    Nerdy - psychology, philosophy, esoteria, typology, history - those are the topics I constantly discuss with people around me. Everyone perceives me as a curious person, who constantly talks about typology and science; who constantly makes connections and tries to deepen her knowledge; enlarge her horizon. I studied well, kept myself busy and was not really interested in relationships until now. So people think I'm very curious and nerdy but not really interested in communications. But it's not about I don't care about relationships, I just don't express emotions and desire to form them. I'd rather have many superficial yet intellectual and mentally stimulating connections than the strong, emotional ones. I do have close relationships, but those people with whom I form soulful relations are very few.
    Chaotic - my closest friends and family members know how chaotic and unpredictable I am. They know I have attention issues and also lack organization in my environment. They constantly tell me to stop theorizing everything and keep in touch with the reality.
    Empathetic - I love giving advises and people around me think I should become a psychologist. The truth is, I'm not that interested in other people's lives or helping them, I just use them for my researches about people and life in general. It's rude and cruel but meh, possibilities are first and morals second for me.
    Asocial/Introvert - I'd rather stay home and read a book. Or go to a party and take current book, just sit there and read. That's why people think I'm "the most socially introverted person they know" and they can't believe me when I tell them I'm cognitively extraverted. I'm also quite shy and meh, damn those stereotypes... I do love to socialize, I feel confident in the spotlight and it energizes me but moderately. If I don't find it meaningful, I will  surely leave the party.

    What reputation do you have amongst a group of people?

    They come to me for advises. amongst them I'm a believer, a seeker, a researcher, a creative storyteller and doer and they generally think I'm calming, optimistic person. One of my friends told me I'm an elephant in this video :p

    #7515
    Shelley Lorraine
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    So reading one paragraph which has multiple interpretations, implications and considerations can be arduous to “grasp” and can cause hours of thinking about “how it fits in” with other things — indeed. Yet this is still real-time object-manipulation (E), cognitively speaking.

    oh no no no, I have no trouble with reading comprehension. Or rather, I tend not to be as interested in the authors intended meaning as in my own interpretation, which leads into Ji concerns

    But that said, I was aiming for an example of introversion, not of introverts, since as we know we all have access to our four functions, and having a conscious Ji function would trigger the same experience.

    I require a new example since my ji interferes with this one and Eric's native introversion has no interest in such text pondering ;p He says he absorbs it all as one big picture with no need to pick it apart. He considers all the implications as well, but does not need to pause reading to do so - perhaps this is a conductor vs revisor thing rather than intro/extrovert?

    How would most people describe you? (i.e. antisocial? hermetic? …or.. bubbly when she’s comfortable, stiff when she’s not? ;p)
    What reputation do you have amongst a group of people?

    Depends on the group/context. As a kid, I was pretty consistently reserved, but weird. I'd have rare and sudden bursts of confident energy and do crazy things for attention. I had no problem walking up to a guy I saw for the first time in my life and asking him to a school dance. But I also ate lunch alone until my senior year, when I finally obtained a lunch group. I was hyper self-aware and felt too different from everyone to make longterm connections. I was surprised to find out later on how many people even remember me from those days. I've obtained a few facebook friends who seem to think they knew me really well and I hardly have a memory of even sharing a class with them, lol.
    I said in previous post that I wouldn't have minded more interpersonal connection back then, but I was so entertained with other things in general that I didn't always feel the loss. It's only as an adult that I began to seek out people with a purpose. I suppose friends became the next novel experience to be had XD
    Currently, in new groups I can be alternately reserved or boisterously obnoxious upon first meeting. It really depends. In my pagan group, I hardly spoke at all the first few months, until finally I did a complete 180 and began to act as if I have been an active participant all along. People noticed. I don't do anything gradually. Once I decide I want to do or be something else, I put all my energy there.
    In my new book club, I was saying hi to people walking in after me as if I was a longterm member welcoming them to the group. But I can still have reserved days even after making an extroverted entrance.
    Oohhh, one last thing of note...
    Now that I've began exploring friendship more seriously, I've run into the complication of maintaining said friendships. I still have hermit phases. I can be sociable for months and then suddenly feel the need to retreat from the world for months. It's really hard to explain this to new friends, who tend to think I don't like them anymore. I have a very on/off persona. It confuses people.

    #8345
    Lumi
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    So when you do feel comfortable around others, what kind of interactions do you like having? (Playful, silly ones? Intensely personal ones? Nerdy/Geeky ones? Philosophical ones?)

    Hmmm... I feel like I like all of them, but I think the conversation I like to have depends on the mood? And also, I try to guess whether or not the other person will be interested in a particular topic. If I think I see that there is little interest in the topic, then I try to switch to another one. I think that as long as we are both engaged in the conversation, the type may not matter at all, haha.
    However, I probably like intensely personal, nerdy/geeky and philosophical ones the best. Or maybe just no conversation at all, but with the other person and I just sitting there in silence (but not in awkward silence though :p). With intensely personal conversations, I think I just like the way we can open ourselves up a bit and share experiences and our vulnerable sides or something? Those convos feel sorta liberating and they overall feel very nice :p.
    Also, I like conversations about human nature and other related topics, so I get a bit interested in those kind of discussions in my English class even though I don't participate in them, hehe. There's one particular friend of mine who likes to talk about human nature more than I do; whenever we talk, it's always cool to see her views on human nature and morality from books, anime (Death Note usually :p), movies.

    @bera
    - Eyyyy I was more outgoing as a kid as well! Maybe I'll be more outgoing once I get into adulthood? Haha, maybe it is somewhat age-related :p.

    @kesogagoshidze
    - Same! Well, sort of. :p I don't think I'm totally interested in communication either....

    #8365
    Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @XxIlluminisxX - I love Death Note ! I didn't watch the anime but I read the manga series and loved both Light and L and the whole cat and mouse game between them. I did not read the ending though because after a certain event I stopped caring (I think you will guess the event but I don't want to spoil it for others).
    Regarding age and being more outgoing, yes, this can happen especially if your job will push you in this direction. In high school and college you can stay socially introverted and this will not impact your output but in certain work situations you might need to be more outgoing to obtain the desired results and though it is hard at first, if you are put in these situations often enough, you begin to adapt to them more and more.  It does take some time though. 3 or 4 years ago I was still not capable of doing some of the things I do now. Now basically my intrinsic shyness can still be seen but if I need to get a point across, I do it, even when opposed to people who are much more experienced in their fields than I am in mine and who I actually look up to. And I try to build rapport, no matter the age difference or the background. It does not always work but 9 times out of 10 it does. I think it's important to always think that everyone is human and there are always common experiences to talk about. CT also helps, cause when you recognize someone is using a function, he somehow becomes easier to build a connection with. He becomes less of the CEO with a political background and more of a Te dom you let explain the process he is thinking about showing the little milestones on a scheme he is drawing in front of you and after he has finished, you can then take the paper and point the alternative milestones you propose, using Te in a similar way. You can try to look like this to teachers or other authority figures in your life...I think it's pretty fun and rewarding. <3

    #10253
    Lumi
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @bera - Oh heyyyy are you an anime/manga fan as well? I think I can guess what event you are talking about because some of my friends stopped reading the series after that part as well. :p Who's your favorite character? I mean, I think it's THAT person who... y'know *wink wink*.  Haha, the suspense and all the mind games they play on each other.... (I haven't finished the anime or the manga though because my friends told me what happened :p)
    Ah, so because of external circumstances you began to change? You do seem pretty outgoing. :p I bet your past self finds it courageous that you can now get your point across to people. What was it like being in work situations for the first time? Was it scary at first? Oh, and I probably need to remember that there are common experiences that the other person and I can talk about, so thanks for that tip that you may have unintentionally given me! By the way, I like your idea of building rapport using common experiences and CT, haha! Maybe after university, when I get into the real world, I'll be pushed to change as well... I think it'll get better, though one week before, my eyes started watering like a sprinkler while being at a sleepover knowing only one person (it was scary as heeeccckkkk especially when I think attention was on me). Thus, I tried to slip away as often as I could (I wish I didn't though because I felt I was being a bit rude) to the one place I always go to when I felt uncomfortable: the bathroom. Hmmm... maybe I should be more proactive. :p
    Have you ever hid in places for some time and was like, yup, I'm gonna stay here for some time and hope that I won't need to talk or meet anyone?
     

    #10771
    Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @xxilluminisxx

     Who’s your favorite character? I mean, I think it’s THAT person who… y’know *wink wink*.

    Yes, I think we are talking about the same person. 🙂 Better not to write any names in this context. Or initials. :))
    But I actually liked both, I just personally would not have used Death Note to kill criminals. I didn't like that. I honestly would have probably used it to kill people like Hitler and kept it hidden the rest of the time so that no one could use it for another purpose than to kill powerful leaders who have a strong negative influence on humanity as a whole. I would have also killed people who committed crimes against the environment....anything to save the world, I mean. :))
    I felt Light used it in a wrong way, he could have reshaped history and what did he do?? Kill off some criminals?!? Jeez.

    I bet your past self finds it courageous that you can now get your point across to people.

    Yes, totally ! I am very proud of myself because of this; it is quite an accomplishment for someone like me. 😉

    What was it like being in work situations for the first time? Was it scary at first?

    I am sorry to tell you this, because it is not encouraging at all but yes, it was terrifying. My first job was weirdly acceptable but the second one was horrible. My coworkers were mean to me, work itself was hard and exceeded what I knew at that time and I had many weekends in which instead of having fun I stayed home, worrying about how to keep that job and how to build better work relationships with my colleagues. 🙁
    Now with my current job - my boss is more manageable. I have some assets that other coworkers don't and I am in a quite secure position. It is a good place to experiment with different corporate scenarios and to learn stuff about many different fields of activity. Everything is interwined, the legal issues with the commercial, financial and technical ones. You can't completely separate them and you get to learn about all of them at the same time. <3
    I heard that if something feels scary but it still is necessary for your evolution, the best approach is to do it but to split it in manageable parts and do them one after the other, taking small steps, one at a time.
    So, for example, if you are afraid of speaking in public, you can start with asking questions in class or later in office meetings. When this feels natural, you can start elaborating on those questions or answering someone else's questions. Again, when this feels safe, you can do a small informal talk in front of colleagues. After that, a longer and more complex talk. And then a small presentation etc. It is much better than direct exposure to a one hour presentation in front of 200 people. 🙂

    I think it’ll get better, though one week before, my eyes started watering like a sprinkler while being at a sleepover knowing only one person (it was scary as heeeccckkkk especially when I think attention was on me). Thus, I tried to slip away as often as I could (I wish I didn’t though because I felt I was being a bit rude) to the one place I always go to when I felt uncomfortable: the bathroom. Hmmm… maybe I should be more proactive. :p

    It's ok, it's completely normal. I am 32 and I still feel very shy sometimes too. With strangers I usually manage to build a connection if I put in some effort. But there are certain people that just make me feel shy by their simple presence, no matter if we talked before or not. And I tend to keep interactions with them minimal. And get blocked when talking to them. Like literally I can't think of anything to say or any way to react. And when I say something, it's so ridiculously absurd, as if I was retarded. :)))
    So, I get that. I'm not sure what to do...ok, strangers. Look for one of them that looks safe and start an easy conversation about something trivial. Probably his friends will be attracted to the conversation and you will soon start to get along with everyone. Now...you also can't expect wonders, this gets better in time. But I think a good approach is to focus on one of them, not on all, because facing a lot of strangers is overwhelming. And to think of something easy to talk about. Imagine they might feel the exact same way you do ! Maybe they would love to talk to you but don't know what to say. 🙂

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