[Ji] How do you relate to this l— description?

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  • Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Hello my fellow Ji-leads,

    I’m wondering what your thoughts are about this short l— profile? If you are of a different development now, then perhaps think back to when you were l— and see how it feels? Thanks for the feedback! Here it is:

    TiNe/TiSe/FiNe/FiSe

    I—

    edit: Updated down below

    As a [TiNe/TiSe/FiNe/FiSe l—] you are a Compass type – inescapably compelled to withdraw your energies from the world and into an interior realm of private contemplation. You exist always with a level of removal from the physical sphere. Vivid engagement with your environment can become a challenge, as you’ll tend to be a wallflower and watch reality from a safe mental distance. This clear division between the “outer” world and the “inner” world will make you all the more covetous of yourself when the outer world demands of your attention, energies and time. The outside may feel as though it is seeking to pull you in multiple directions, stretching you thin through the agendas of bigger bodies and personalities. This will prompt a need to resist the forces of society for the sake of preserving your own essence and opinions. Retaining your own mental autonomy will be very important to you, as you will passionately repel any attempt by others to define you or tell you what is true or what to think.

    In all areas of life, you’ll tend to be picky about your opinions; paving your own way and arriving to your own conclusions even if they’re taboo and lead to your excommunication. Thus, there is an isolationist tendency in your behavior, as your own trail-blazing leads you ever deeper into a smaller niche. And this same particularity of thoughts is also applied to all other fields you occupy, giving you an aesthetic sensibility in many domains. You may take your time with your writings, songs or crafts – making sure each work is as representative as possible of the ineffable idea that exists in your mind. This inescapably makes you slower than others at most tasks, as you invest extra in a precision which others are much freer to cut short for the sake of practicality. You are not the most practical creature, and your values for authenticity, transparency, independence and precision are at odds with a mechanical world that values results, bottom-lines, efficiency and economy. You’re not the most industrial personality, and making a living represents a powerful challenge to you since working outside of your very niche passions will feel like a suffocation and a sin to your essence.

    However, you may be comfortable with this side-effect if it means standing for what you value as being true. Finding out what is “true” in the highest sense will represent a life-long aspiration and obsession for you. And although you may have more questions than answers, you will stand rigidly and stubbornly by the answers that you do have. But your understanding of truth will be nuanced and plagued with disclaimers and revisions at every corner, making it difficult to say anything definitively. The subtleties that make one situation misaligned and not another is a matter of very delicate accuracy; an accuracy that your mind is constantly aiming to attain and perfect. Therefore rhetoric, the art of persuading others towards your particular answers, comes to be your Achille’s heel. Despite these countless hours spent on contemplating fundamental questions, your insights stay largely trapped within your mind as you lack a vehicle through which to share it with others.

    This disconnect produces a fantasy and longing in you to make an enormous difference in the world through the actionable integration of truth-principles. A yearning will exist to see the implementation of the truths and dreams in your mind. This cause will be poignant, pure, absolutely all-encompassing and idealistic – proportional to how far removed the world feels from it presently. World peace, the transformation of humanity towards sustainable forms of living, the evolution of consciousness to untold heights; these types of ideas will preoccupy your daydreams and yearnings. But your imaginations will be at terrible odds with your own practical means, as you’ll do nowhere near enough to advance these causes forward in the world. Your own temperament remains faint, soft and internalized too much from the big executive world and how it forces solutions to take place.

    edit: old one was…

    Spoiler:

    As a [TiNe/TiSe/FiNe/FiSe] you are a Compass type – inescapably compelled to withdraw your energies from the world and into an interior realm of private contemplation. You exist always with a level of removal from the physical sphere. Vivid engagement with your environment can become a challenge, as you’ll tend to be a wallflower and watch reality from a safe mental distance. This clear division between the “outer” world and the “inner” world will make you all the more covetous of yourself when the outer world demands of your attention, energies and time. The outside may feel as though it is seeking to pull you in multiple directions, stretching you thin through the agendas of bigger bodies and personalities. This will prompt a need to resist the forces of society for the sake of preserving your own essence and opinions. Retaining your own mental autonomy will be very important to you, as you will passionately repel any attempt by others to define you, or tell you what is true or what to think.

    In all areas of life, you’ll tend to be picky about your opinions; paving your own way and arriving to your own conclusions even if they’re taboo and lead to your excommunication. Thus, there is an isolationist tendency in your behavior, as your own trail-blazing leads you ever deeper into a smaller niche. However, you may be comfortable with this side-effect if it means standing for what you value as being true. Finding out what is “true” in the highest sense will represent a life-long aspiration and obsession for you. And although you may have more questions than answers, you will stand rigidly and stubbornly by the answers that you do have.

    Being a Ji type with l— development, you have the highest concentration of focus on Ji, and the least in Je & Pi. Articulation will not be your strong suit and although you may spend hundreds of hours more than others contemplating questions of truth, you may not have the words formed to relay that to others. Your understanding of truth will be nuanced and plagued with disclaimers at every corner, making it difficult to say anything definitively. The subtleties that make one situation misaligned and not another is a matter of very delicate accuracy; an accuracy that your mind is constantly aiming to attain and perfect.

    And the same perfectionism that’s applied to concepts is also applied to other fields, giving you an aesthetic sensibility in many domains. You may take your time with your writings, songs or crafts – making sure each work is as representative as possible of the ineffable idea that exists in your mind. This inescapably makes you slower than others at most tasks, as you invest extra in a precision which others are much more free to cut short for the sake of practicality. You are not the most practical creature, and your values for authenticity, transparency, independence and precision are at odds with a mechanical world that values results, bottom-lines, efficiency and economy. You’re not the most industrial personality, and making a living represents a powerful challenge to you since working outside of your very niche passions will feel like a suffocation and a sin to your essence.

    • This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This topic was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Auburn.
    marcus aurelius
    Participant
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    I relate to a fair amount of this, but not everything. When I was a kid I was checked out of most things happening around me, but even then I didn’t struggle much with articulation or accomplishing things when I felt like it or when it was necessary. Maybe I developed Je very early though

    hackphobia
    Participant
    • Type: FiSe
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    I find it pretty spot on. a while ago, I noticed one of my friends, whom i suspect is an Fi, play a short comedy video on facebook multiple times again and again. Then it hit me that I do that too all the time. I think when I encounter any stimuli, I unconsciously observe my body’s reaction to it which is the main way I get my inspiration and decision making. It pisses me off a lot of people expect an immediate reaction out of me usually.

    “Your understanding of truth will be nuanced and plagued with disclaimers at every corner, making it difficult to say anything definitively.”
    “This inescapably makes you slower than others at most tasks, as you invest extra in a precision which others are much more free to cut short for the sake of practicality.”

    I definitely agree and as a result most of my friends have a much wider areas of interest, hobbies and adventures going on for them.

    Fi is probably a lot about observing inner fluctuations in relation to what’s going on in my life. Thoughts and feelings that  pop up in response to some kind of event, are rarely random. Even if I can’t make sense of them at that moment, pretty often the same thoughts pop up again in similar situations and I usually end up integrating them in my world map.

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by hackphobia.
    LadyNerdsky
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Introverted, wallflower, withdrawn from the outside world to contemplate and focus on inner world. Appearing separate from the external physical world, watching the outside world from behind a pane of glass. Detached observer, reluctant to participate in activities that I perceived as wasting my time and energy, preferring to stick to my own agenda even if that agenda was at odds with societal expectations, annoyed at being controlled or forced into things. Picky about opinions, paving my own way determining my own conclusions even if taboo or against social convention. Yes, to all.

    “passionately repel” I don’t think I would outwardly passionately repel anything though. I’m more of a passive-aggressive stubborn type that hates conflict or disagreement in-person. I’m unlikely to make a scene or fuss, but will quietly thwart convention, expectation and control. I might say yes on the outside but do my own thing afterwards. I’m a brave keyboard/internet warrior but not in reality. I’d be meek and passive.

    “Lead to your excommunication”  Too meek to really push anything to that point.

    I’m having a hard time with the statements about pursuing truth in the 2nd paragraph. I feel more like a floating passive sponge observing and absorbing anything and everything rather than actively chasing and refining a personal perspective of truth in a niche. I feel pretty open, adaptable and malleable about beliefs and perspectives I’ve formed and will rapidly change my thoughts and opinions. Like global truth is more important than my personal truth? I get irritated by people who do hold firmly and stubbornly to their own opinions even in the face of contradictory external evidence and data.

    Paragraph 3: Yes, not great with verbal articulation. I definitely struggle with putting my internal thoughts, ideas and perspectives into a linear spoken conversation. I need lots of time and a written asynchronous communication medium to attempt clarity. But I think my “truth” or understanding of how things work  is more of a vague unspecific messy impression rather than an accurate, nuanced internal model that demands perfection. I don’t think I spend much time refining and perfecting the mess or getting caught-up on nuance and definitions.

    Paragraph 4: I am a perfectionist, but I’m not sure that it was always restricted to aesthetics or for an authentic expression of an inner vision. I am slow to craft anything. Just asked my parents about my personality as a teenager and they said I was practical and industrial.

    (Also, I have more to add about my parents’ perspective on my personality traits aged 10 to my early 20s. I just quizzed them).

    Evergreen
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: l---
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    This is great! The last 2 paragraphs resonate with me a lot, and parts of the first 2 do as well. The part about being removed from the physical sphere doesn’t quite describe what my experience feels like. I am a private person and like having plenty of alone time, but I have always felt connected to the physical world. I love adventure, traveling, sports, and new experiences, and I need to feel challenged by the world in order to feel personally fulfilled. That part is a little more difficult, though. As the third paragraph says, I sometimes have trouble coming up with the right words and actions to relay my ideas or make my intentions real.

    For me, my goal isn’t to resist the outside world or to protect myself from it (although I do do those things). It’s more about learning how to reach out to the world and become a more active participant in it without sacrificing the “me time,” the privacy, and the “mental autonomy” (as you put it so well) that I need in order to feel comfortable and in control.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Evergreen.
    Ivory
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    I don’t think I’ve ever been I—, so my input will be limited.
    I’ll be annoying anyway and copy-paste each paragraph. 😉

    1st paragraph:

    As a [TiNe/TiSe/FiNe/FiSe] you are a Compass type – inescapably compelled to withdraw your energies from the world and into an interior realm of private contemplation.

    Yes.

    You exist always with a level of removal from the physical sphere.

    Nope, and never been like this. But then I am Se conscious.

    Vivid engagement with your environment can become a challenge, as you’ll tend to be a wallflower and watch reality from a safe mental distance.

    Can’t relate for the same reason. One insult I do remember from my teens (the only one I remember) is “wallflower.” It stung because I was holding back while suffering from social anxiety. As a child, I was way more ‘vividly’ engaged with my environment and I was mourning my loss of this innocence – hence why I remembered.

    This clear division between the “outer” world and the “inner” world will make you all the more covetous of yourself when the outer world demands of your attention, energies and time. The outside may feel as though it is seeking to pull you in multiple directions, stretching you thin through the agendas of bigger bodies and personalities.

    Quite apt for me- except that I do not experience others as having bigger bodies and personalities. This may be again related to (a lack of) Se.

    This will prompt a need to resist the forces of society for the sake of preserving your own essence and opinions. Retaining your own mental autonomy will be very important to you, as you will passionately repel any attempt by others to define you, or tell you what is true or what to think.

    Yes, sadly enough. I want to be Je conscious already, damn it!

    2nd paragraph:

    In all areas of life, you’ll tend to be picky about your opinions; paving your own way and arriving to your own conclusions even if they’re taboo and lead to your excommunication. Thus, there is an isolationist tendency in your behavior, as your own trail-blazing leads you ever deeper into a smaller niche. However, you may be comfortable with this side-effect if it means standing for what you value as being true. Finding out what is “true” in the highest sense will represent a life-long aspiration and obsession for you. And although you may have more questions than answers, you will stand rigidly and stubbornly by the answers that you do have.

    I relate to this 100%.

    3rd paragraph:

    Being a Ji type with l— development, you have the highest concentration of focus on Ji, and the least in Je & Pi. Articulation will not be your strong suit and although you may spend hundreds of hours more than others contemplating questions of truth, you may not have the words formed to relay that to others. Your understanding of truth will be nuanced and plagued with disclaimers at every corner, making it difficult to say anything definitively. The subtleties that make one situation misaligned and not another is a matter of very delicate accuracy; an accuracy that your mind is constantly aiming to attain and perfect.

    Yup. I barely talk to most people.

    And the same perfectionism that’s applied to concepts is also applied to other fields, giving you an aesthetic sensibility in many domains. You may take your time with your writings, songs or crafts – making sure each work is as representative as possible of the ineffable idea that exists in your mind.

    The “many domains“-part sounds like Pe to me. Ji I— sounds like more of a specialist to me… which in turn works well with being overly perfectionistic. Personally, I relate to the “many domains” and find that this is more of a curse than a blessing because it keeps me from ever finishing anything. Patience is not my virtue.

    This inescapably makes you slower than others at most tasks, as you invest extra in a precision which others are much more free to cut short for the sake of practicality. You are not the most practical creature, and your values for authenticity, transparency, independence and precision are at odds with a mechanical world that values results, bottom-lines, efficiency and economy. You’re not the most industrial personality, and making a living represents a powerful challenge to you since working outside of your very niche passions will feel like a suffocation and a sin to your essence.

    Yes to all of it.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Ivory.
    LadyNerdsky
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Part II:

    I cornered both my parents and asked them to brainstorm some personality traits that fit me ages 10 through to my early 20s. Not sure when my Pe kicked into consciousness, but here’s their list without them knowing about any typology systems:

    Reserved, quiet, opinionated, perfectionist, high standards that won’t budge, strong work ethic, studious, thought I was better than others and most people were beneath me, practical and industrious (that was my yes/no prompt), stand-offish, never leaves tasks undone, picky, precise. Temperamental, moody, very emotional, “ are definitely not easy to please, fuck that” (thanks Mum, lol), serious, organised, no-nonsense, not strange or eccentric, doesn’t avoid problems but tackles them and gets on with it, methodical, hates mistakes, stubborn in beliefs, knows own mind and very little will change it (except a logical argument), jealous streak, competitive nature, must achieve best results, confident, not scared to tackle anything, fiercely independent, self-driven, goal-driven, determined, good at giving advice. Driven by logic, analytical, not driven by the need to please others, will not bow to peer pressure or seek peer acceptance, makes decisions for the common good rather than personal benefit or for superficial reasons, puts others before self, does the right thing even if it goes against their peers, forms independent opinions, straightforward and honest but considerate of others’ feelings, would be brutally honest for someone’s own good. 

    I think they’ve accidentally hit on Fi (unseelie) with some Te poking through.

    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    holy crap, these replies are so insightful!

    I can definitely see the variance in the TiSe’s …with regards to Se presence, and then with the FiNe’s with regards to Te logistics. So it’s like the OP’s somewhat more TiNe oriented, and you guys diverge from there accordingly.

    It also confirms my suspicion that Ji-leads are rigid/stubborn as fuk! xD

    Why do we have a stick up our ass? D:

    Spoiler:

    did u guys ever try to chill out your Ji, and did it work?

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: l---
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    I like this description; I can relate to it, even if I’d probably nuance the articulation problem… It’s not so much that the words are lacking/don’t show up, but i think the struggle is mainly linked to the perfectionist aspect you’re describing (a need to choose the perfect/more accurate and evocative word or expression) and also a retentive/protective tendency (I don’t talk about what i think/feel with everybody)…

    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: l---
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Oh I’ve just read what Ivory wrote. The word “bigger”, in “stretching you thin through the agendas of bigger bodies and personalities”, can be confusing…

    It’s a difference in the ability to externalise energy… Some people live mainly outside of themselves and can therefore easily engage with their surrounding… Their personality is ”bigger” only because they can “yell/stretch themselves out”, but – to continue on the metaphor you used – it doesn’t mean it keeps the same density (or even that the initial densities were equivalent) – balloon effect… (being loud doesn’t mean being deep). But I understand what you meant. It’s a matter of proactivity/facility to engage with the world.

    Kebab
    Participant
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    I’m sorry that I ramble. If anybody knows how to put text in spoilers, please help, so I don’t take up as much space.

    “As a [TiNe/TiSe/FiNe/FiSe] you are a Compass type – inescapably compelled to withdraw your energies from the world and into an interior realm of private contemplation. You exist always with a level of removal from the physical sphere.”

    Spoiler:

    If I’m just withdrawing my energy from the external world, then I can agree, and I think this is an introverted tendency more generally. I wonder, though, what is meant by “removal from the physical realm”? If it’s just the same as withdrawing inward, then sure. However, I’ve never seen this as removing myself from the physical world. There was a period in my high school years when I strove to be a Gnostic, which might be the closest to removing myself from the physical realm – quite literally. However, this was mostly a reaction and revulsion toward the evil so evident in this physical world, and a hope that there was a higher, spiritual realm to which I, and we all, could return. This Gnosticism was never the product of experiencing myself as a floating mind loosely attached to a body, as it were. I’ve always enjoyed physical activity and tactile experience, and to this day often prefer physical labour to the more abstract work done while sitting in a chair.

    “Vivid engagement with your environment can become a challenge, as you’ll tend to be a wallflower and watch reality from a safe mental distance.”

    Spoiler:

    This depends on what is meant by “vivid”: there is much in our society that is excessive, whether over-stimulating (such as in the cacophony of a busy downtown core), or under-stimulating (staring at a screen for hours on end). This is all a challenge, indeed. However, if “vivid” is to mean that which is alive, I do not have a problem with a truly lively engagement with the environment. I delight in it. And while I may withdraw inward to observe, I’ve never been, nor been seen to be, a wallflower or one needing a safe mental distance. Some things take much time to reflect upon, but I haven’t tended to run away from them. As I see it, my Ji is meant to engage the world, perhaps even in its not-so-obvious and -pretty corners, not turn away from it.

    “This clear division between the “outer” world and the “inner” world will make you all the more covetous of yourself when the outer world demands of your attention, energies and time. The outside may feel as though it is seeking to pull you in multiple directions, stretching you thin through the agendas of bigger bodies and personalities. This will prompt a need to resistthe forces of society for the sake of preserving your own essence and opinions. Retaining your own mental autonomy will be very important to you, as you will passionately repel any attempt by others to define you, or tell you what is true or what to think.”

    Spoiler:

    I definitely feel a conflict between what I want to do and what the world wants me to do, but I don’t think that this is a conflict between the outer and the inner, which aren’t so clearly delineated. It’s not so much that I want to withdraw inward, but to use my time on my own terms. This may include spending my time in the outer world, which I enjoy very much, and which has won me the reputation among my friends as the indefatigable fellow who takes them on eight-hour walks (so much for removal from the physical world) to ramble about anything and everything – and who could go for more, if only the others weren’t tired. In so far as my attention, energies and time are concerned, yes, it’s about going my own way, more so than about going inwards. (That being said, I do value social responsibilities and try to live up to them, even if it requires dispensing my autonomy. Nonetheless, I do reserve the right to ask and decide what is a social responsibility.)
    However, when it comes to my interactions with society and its demands on my values and beliefs, I don’t think I place so much value on my self-willing as in how I use my time. I may indeed seek mental autonomy, and resist others’ attempts at telling me what to think. However, I want to stress that I do not do this because I want to preserve my own “essence and opinions”, nor because I do not want others to define me or tell me what is true. I want to know what is true, and if others have to tell me what is true, have to define me, have to change my essence and opinions – all towards the end of the truth, then so be it. Of course, as with all people, I have biases and will affirm my own views, but I do not value them because they are mine, but because I believe they are true (or good, or whatever else of value).

    “In all areas of life, you’ll tend to be picky about your opinions; paving your own way and arriving to your own conclusions even if they’re taboo and lead to your excommunication.”

    Spoiler:

    True enough, though I also generally try to discuss things with others. Harmony and consensus are also important. Maybe this latter tendency has developed more as I matured, but I don’t think there was ever a point in my life in which my conclusions were meant to be mine and mine alone.

    “Thus, there is an isolationist tendency in your behavior, as your own trail-blazing leads you ever deeper into a smaller niche. However, you may be comfortable with this side-effect if it means standing for what you value as being true.”

    Spoiler:

    Fair, though, again, I’m not necessarily an isolationist, nor do I really wish to be.

    “Finding out what is “true” in the highest sense will represent a life-long aspiration and obsession for you. And although you may have more questions than answers, you will stand rigidly and stubbornly by the answers that you do have.”

    Spoiler:

    Mostly true, but I want to shift from myself to the question of Ji: is this really the consequence of a function, or are we entering the realm of virtue?
    (Also, to go back to myself, if the answers that I do have are wrong, I will change them, but they’d better be proven wrong!)

    “Articulation will not be your strong suit and although you may spend hundreds of hours more than others contemplating questions of truth, you may not have the words formed to relay that to others.”

    Spoiler:

    This was certainly true of me when I was just a l—, and I had to struggle to get better at this, which, fortunately, I have.

    “Your understanding of truth will be nuanced and plagued with disclaimers at every corner, making it difficult to say anything definitively.”

    Spoiler:

    Fair, and I think this is a good way to approach the truth. However, I have two hesitations. First, in terms of type, I’ve developed this more nuanced approach as I have gotten more in touch with my Si (which I still claim to have conscious). When I was a pure-Ji pup, I was much more inclined to make grand assertions, but now I am increasingly aware of the importance of details. (I wish I had left up some of my videos from many years ago to demonstrate the changes. Oh well….)
    Second, how much are we going into other realms like virtue this time again? I think this can be a good approach, but not just because of my type (note what I said above about my pup days). And I think the extent to which this needs to be done can shift with the actual degree of knowledge we have about a topic. When I’m swimming in strange waters, I’ll admit it. But when I’m in my home territory, I also aim to be honest and unhesitant about what I do know, while also admitting that it’s possible that I might be wrong. This type of behaviour is not, I think, the product of type, at least not necessarily.

    “The subtleties that make one situation misaligned and not another is a matter of very delicate accuracy; an accuracy that your mind is constantly aiming to attain and perfect.”

    Spoiler:

    Fair.

    “And the same perfectionism that’s applied to concepts is also applied to other fields, giving you an aesthetic sensibility in many domains. You may take your time with your writings, songs or crafts – making sure each work is as representative as possible of the ineffable idea that exists in your mind.”

    Spoiler:

    Fair.

    “This inescapably makes you slower than others at most tasks, as you invest extra in a precision which others are much more free to cut short for the sake of practicality.”

    Spoiler:

    OK.

    “You are not the most practical creature, and your values for authenticity, transparency, independence and precision are at odds with a mechanical world that values results, bottom-lines, efficiency and economy. You’re not the most industrial personality, and making a living represents a powerful challenge to you since working outside of your very niche passions will feel like a suffocation and a sin to your essence.”

    Spoiler:

    And this is where it turns not so OK. Yes, sloppy and meaningless efficiency is not a value to me. But not being practical and industrious, and perceiving anything outside of my niche passions as “a suffocation and a sin to my essence” – that’s all very strange to me. When I was very little, I was known as being very disciplined and hard-working, putting aside my play in order to complete my work out of my own accord. In my teenage years this might have changed somewhat, and perhaps I was more like what you describe, but this also had to do with some personal problems (into which I won’t get here), or the general problems of the adolescent (regarding emphasizing one’s own identity against the world). So it depends on which part of my life I want to select as the pure-Ji, but I think the first would make sense, and it goes against the description.
    As for now, I don’t think this is true. I spend most of my time working on some thing or other, even when I don’t have to work. It doesn’t necessarily produce immediate or tangible results, as I have long-term goals in mind that I think are more worthwhile. (Yet, I have also been trying to regularly produce poems, though.) As for that last part about suffocation and sin – no. If it’s honest work, then I’m generally fine with it, and my objections to some work (e.g. being a garbage man) may come from more obvious reasons that don’t have to do much with my passions. This isn’t to say that it doesn’t matter to me how I live my life. I do have a general vision of the good life – or at least am developing it – but there hasn’t been much in there about realizing my passions in work as something valuable in itself, only in so far as this might serve a greater good.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    Kebab
    Participant
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Thank you to whoever put the spoilers in the comment above. I’ve decided that I should add something to, and improve, what I said above, so I made a video (typing is a drag).

    Enjoy!

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Kebab.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Oh wow, I see your Si now @linus. Yes, I think you’re lll- in development, with a good mix of Ne+Si. I see your Ne bobbling a lot in the first minute or so, and around 1:08+ you start to Si scowl heavily, and drift off to the sides. You also have Si’s Dancing Brow, and the full spectrum including Si Slanting Edges, Si Confused Stare and Si’s Lightweight Inertia.

    Regarding what you say in the video (up to about 6 minutes–I’m still watching the rest but responding in bits) I feel that the tendency for Ji to be associated with “identity” is supported by the evidence in the database. Although I would prefer the world “identity” over the word “self” since the self is something we all have, without having an explicit crafted identity.

    We see this identity-focus in people such as FiSe Prince Nelson, FiSe Michael Jackson, TiSe David Bowie, TiNe Chris Corner, TiSe Ivory, and many others who decorate themselves both artistically and ethically as a particular kind of being. Not only that, we also see this proclivity in non-Ji-leads in proportion to their Ji development. So Pe-leads with conscious Ji (i.e. NeFi Regina Spektor, NeFi Aurora Aksnes) or Je-leads with conscious Ji (TeSi Martha Becks, FeNi Jordan Peterson) are accordingly more focused on sustaining themselves as “pure” in form/value/identity, true to some axioms closely aligned to their essence.

    In this sense, we can properly frame this as a Ji quality, imo, because it manifests across all types in all the appropriate developmental cross-sections. I find it really quite astounding and consistent. So from this angle, we can view the scenario with you (lll- or P-heavy) and Fearuss (also P-heavy) as deviating from the standard Ji description not because the description isn’t appropriately framed, but because the net effect of having two conscious P functions decentralizes the focus of judgment/identity sufficiently to cause a disconnect with the Ji l— description. And the Ji lll- description would, when written, reflect this.

    P Heaviness

    The P functions are, in essence, dissolving into the everything. Or perhaps re-realizing they never weren’t everything. They are rhythmic and draw no rigid distinctions, and this extends to a lack of distinction between themselves and the world (hence a loss of fixation on identity). The Polarized P-leads we’ve seen do also reflect this phenomenon, which is why I find it appropriate to say that this viewpoint, as manifest in yourself, is likely coming from your two P functions being well developed.

    And I do believe this lll- development has the capacity to greatly alter the experience of the type (TiNe) which is why dev levels needed to be introduced — because there is enough variation within a type to cause individuals to feel quite different from one another without accounting for this factor. I hope this makes sense? In a way I see your reply as evidence itself of the reality of dev level differences.

    Spoiler:

    I didn’t finish your video though, so maybe I’ll do that first before commenting further. But these are my initial $0.02!

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Yes, I generally agree with you! …and I think you’re honing into the same thing I’m describing. Let me see if I can try to clarify our non-disagreement.

    Ji Metabolism

    First I have to make a clarification: the OP is a behavioral profile extrapolating specifically to the Ji with “l–” development. The Ji profile you’re referring to is also a behavioral one. Thus I wholly agree that Ji’s metabolic operation on its own doesn’t require this need-to-represent an essence or principle, but is more confined to just finding out what it is.

    By the way my point wasn’t that all Ji l— want to be special snowflakes or that it’s imperative that they manifest uniqueness. That’s not the issue. I actually think a lot of Ji l— users dislike people with that impulse. It is very much like you say, in that they wish to adhere to, value and support ideas which they think are true all around and in general. It just so happens that this arrival at values/axioms compels them (by integrity) to also not act in opposition to them. So this ‘truth’ becomes a personal obligation.

    Yet I can definitely see a Ji lead not being focused on “being” a pure/aesthetic identity; I think this is secondary to the metabolism. I think it’s emergent from the metabolism, even if only when the person is J-heavy. So the raw metabolic aspects allow for scenarios like your own (lll-) which are focused on Ji accuracy/precision/parsing (which is the central thing) but not in embodiment of any particular form/structure/values-system. But then other more J-heavy people do take it personally as a kind of personal obligation to be/embody/live the ideas (aesthetics are ideas/values too) they see as right.


    @linus
    – I wonder if that feels like a proper reconciliation of your experience, in relation to the model?

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Auburn.
    Faeruss
    Participant
    • Type: FeNi
    • Development: llll
    • Attitude: Directive

    I came across this passage from the great Plotinus that captures some of the Ji tendencies we have touched on in this thread:

    Withdraw into yourself and look. And if you do not find yourself beautiful yet, act as does the creator of a statue that is to be made beautiful: he cuts away here, he smoothes there, he makes this line lighter, this other purer. … Cut away all that is excessive, straighten all that is crooked, bring light to all that is overcast, labor to make all one glow or beauty and never cease chiseling your statue, until there shall shine out on you from it the godlike splendor of virtue.

    – First Ennead, Sixth Tractate, Section 9

     

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