Fe vs Te+Fi - Self Improvement

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  • #9015
    Shelley Lorraine
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    After yesterday’s discussion in discord, I’m still a little confused about Fe vs Fi+Te. How does the latter arrive at what nearly looks like this attribute:
    "The mind-over-body attribute of Fe comes from a place of pain-endurance rather than pleasure or thirst. It comes from the recognition of flaws, from discipline, mental fortitude and self-control. It may not even be connected to “getting” or “seeking out”, as much as to a moral effort. A personal refinement. In this sense Fe shows organization and is militant with itself."
    In my semi-monthly rituals, I pose challenges to myself in order to maintain my discipline and integrity. I have come to refer to this as calibrating my Fi compass.


    @Auburn
    , I am quoting my question here again 'cause I think it got lost in the chaos (or maybe I am still on the queue and you are too overwhelmed rn ;p). I can see that this conversation has expanded into another thread and some of my question is answered tangentially and piecemeal across the other posts. But, when you have time again, I'd appreciate further clarification - to weed out the attributes that are being attributed to Se in the previous posts (since that doesn't apply to me), to understand the difference between Te self-improvement vs Te+Fi self improvement, and to understand how the later is essentially different from Fe - besides the linguistic vs embodied thing. Not looking for a long and detailed explanation, just the bullet points summarized in a single post would be great ? Or maybe they have been and I overlooked it. Feel free to refer me to relevant post as necessary, thx 🙂

    #9053
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    @shelley-lorraine - Oh dear.
    At the behavioral level, the difference is very subtle. But I'll give it a try:

    Te+Fi Self-Improvement Fe Self-Improvement
    finding your way, discovering your worth
    facing life bravely, and returning to your north star
    living your ultimate life
    doing what you love, being your best self
    discipline, dedication and devotion
    embodying your truth
    awakening your potential
    becoming, overcoming, transforming
    turning darkness into light
    being the pack leader
    stand up straight with your shoulders back
    treat yourself like someone you're responsible for helping

    There's a qualia difference here, which I can only articulate at this level right now.
    There isn't anything that is necessarily exclusive to one side or the other. Again, all people can believe all things, but it comes out differently. If I had to sum it up in one line each:
    Te+Fi: Find your true self, be that true self, be strong, protect those you cherish and push society forward
    Fe: Become your best version, awaken your potential, take your place among the tribe as a leader
    If anyone can encapsulate it better, feel free.

    #9057
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I think those distinctions are stellar!
    I'd add a few additional suggestions, though I love what you wrote-
    Te/Fi -> fulfilling your potential
    Fe/Ti -> awakening your potential
    Te/Fi -> finding pragmatic ways to make the vision into reality
    Fe/Ti -> inspiring others to follow their vision

    #9102
    Auburn
    Keymaster
    • Type: TiNe
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    I made a thread spit here, as I think it's certainly worthy of its own topic.
    I also wanted to discuss this from the point of view of mythology-- wherein Te is a White Knight, and Fi is the Princess. Someone who is Te+Fi conscious is simultaneously their own Knight and their own Princess; one part protecting the other. So there's a "defender of the precious" dynamic that happens internally.

    Te White-Knight-ing vs Fe Saving the People

    Now I have to differentiate white-knight-ing from Fe. The role of the knight is more appropriately Animus. Firstly, he's usually devoted to one key precious; his beloved. Fe is a servant to the collective, while Te is  more covetous - placing a bounded border around his/her territory. And the land within that territory is beautiful; a lush garden. Te is selective, through Fi.
    This manifests in big and small ways, such as how Te culture in America is individualistic, but also meritocratic - so that each person works to build their own little kingdom. This is elaborate on much more in this older thread.
    But as it relates to Self-Improvement:
    This is just what I see from the outside but when both are working within the same person, The Knight provides the agency, utility and power by which Fi's radiation can have a voice, expression and illumination. It's the task of the Knight to see the princess shine. And so there's a part in the Te/Fi user that remains delicate & sensitive, while another part is more militant and logistically minded, and takes the brunt of the world.

    @shelley-lorraine
    - I actually see part of this in your relationship to your husband, and it's so adorable! As a high Te, he appears to provide the space for you to exist and manifest.

    @animal
    - I dunno how much of this you'll agree with, and I'm risking another long discussion/argument (that I may or may not have the energy for ) but I actually also felt this was indicative of you, your relationship to Kilian and to yourself. The Te Knight is how I see you manifest your Je, and in a roundabout way it seems your own Te looks out for you, to make sure your Fi can have its expression. I wonder if this makes sense?

    #9106
    Shelley Lorraine
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @Auburn Oh my gosh, this last post is perfect!
     

    Someone who is Te+Fi conscious is simultaneously their own Knight and their own Princess [...]
    It’s the task of the Knight to see the princess shine. And so there’s a part in the Te/Fi user that remains delicate & sensitive, while another part is more militant and logistically minded, and takes the brunt of the world.

    ^^^ Yes! I love this description <3 and it is so true for me! I've been struggling, in fact, to make sense of my dual delicate and militant nature. It seems an odd combination, but it also makes sense.
    I'm still curious about Te vs Te+Fi dev since Drew Barrymore is Te only, how does she fit in with the Fi developed in the same group? How much of a difference does conscious Fi make?
    [ETA - that first image with the knight and Lady really speaks to me. I appreciate so much, the visuals you include in your posts]

    #9108
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @auburn - lol I laughed.
    I don't want to wear you down arguing <3 I love your posts here! I'll respond in a moment 🙂 but I promise I'm out of arguing mode! I'm sorry I got intense, I'm working on it! haha 😀 In my family, heated arguments is just how we were raised... we just hash it out and that's that, no hard feelings. I only end up reacting strongly because I luv your work so much and you write such intense posts yourself, and I get invested in the outcome :3
    More in a moment!

    #9109
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    Te White-Knight-ing vs Fe Saving the People
    Now I have to differentiate white-knight-ing from Fe. The role of the knight is more appropriately Animus. Firstly, he’s usually devoted to one key precious; his beloved. Fe is a servant to the collective, while Te is  more covetous – placing a bounded border around his/her territory. And the land within that territory is beautiful; a lush garden. Te is selective, through Fi.

    Haha, I've always loved doing the Gollum voice and calling someone "my precious."
    *hides under the bed*
    This is absolutely right. I describe my mirror character (who shares my own type) as covetous, possessive etc, of his Ji "princess." This is exactly how I see myself in my own mythology and life. Whereas the Fe character, who also loves the Ji "princess," is too busy serving the collective.  It's exactly the differentiation that I made. She likes being 'possessed' but cannot help but admire the 'wider sacrifice' as well. So I've really explored this difference pretty thoroughly through her reactions & her psyche.
    I'm definitely obsessive, possessive, covetous, single-minded. My art & my husband are "my precious." F___ the rest of the world.

    This manifests in big and small ways, such as how Te culture in America is individualistic, but also meritocratic – so that each person works to build their own little kingdom. This is elaborate on much more in this older thread.

    This is why I like living in USA, actually. I wish we would go back in that direction culturally, though I am logical enough to see the problems with it. I can see the merits in many views, but in my heart of hearts I'll always be a classic libertarian individualist.

    But as it relates to Self-Improvement:
    This is just what I see from the outside but when both are working within the same person, The Knight provides the agency, utility and power by which Fi’s radiation can have a voice, expression and illumination. It’s the task of the Knight to see the princess shine. And so there’s a part in the Te/Fi user that remains delicate & sensitive, while another part is more militant and logistically minded, and takes the brunt of the world.

    Exactly!
    This was why my Te 'alter ego'  was my manager, producer, financer, etc, and protected my broken heart...

    @animal – I dunno how much of this you’ll agree with, and I’m risking another long discussion/argument (that I may or may not have the energy for   ) but I actually also felt this was indicative of you, your relationship to Kilian and to yourself. The Te Knight is how I see you manifest your Je, and in a roundabout way it seems your own Te looks out for you, to make sure your Fi can have its expression. I wonder if this makes sense?

    This is 100% spot on, and exactly how I conceptualize it.  In my own personal mythology where I took on different characters, and in my relationship with Kat.  Even calling him "Kat' is calling him "my precious," in a way.  Yes, you're completely spot on 🙂
    And btw, my Fe friend is confused by the way I act. He would never act possessive over a woman like that. He is always about "The Cause" and making a show out of doing it together.

    #9116
    Tea
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I feel like there are so many threads I could post this on. But there some similarities and differences. I very much feel we create the world we live in, though I think I see it from a Te angle.
    Not all Fe leads are overcomers of every aspect of the psyche. It used to drive me *insane* when I'd hear Tupac shirk his responsibility, "Don't blame me, I was given this world, I didn't make it." Yes, you did! We all do! (delta guilt)
    There's a lot to explore in terns of how we draw boundaries, limitations, and responsibilities. We all do that, and it's a struggle for all of us. It's a process I'm interested in learning more about.
    This ties into how the psyche may be structured (presently I'm rooting for a Ji node at the top, universally), what I told Auburn earlier:
    "I was thinking about posting this but you hit the nail on the head first. Yes, yes, I’m my own knight and princess. Very much so! And especially during this season, actually. It’s a twin birth. I think Ji is in fact central (maybe preferred) to all people but life forces us to use other processes for other reasons. The point of Ne and Si for me? Always to find the best home for my Ji, and nothing less. They are merely servants." I never entertained the princess myth when I was a child. I wanted to be QUEEN. And not just for me.
    It may be the long road, but it's always about eternity for me, in the end. Nothing less.

    #9118
    Tea
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Seelie

    This is a note on my phone from summer of 2017. "I go first" refers to the Amish schoolhouse shooting in which the oldest child said, "Shoot me first." I wrote it on my phone because I was going to explain something to somebody. I forgot whom. But I it was about my Fi and Te in contrast to both Fe and Se. It was a reference to my worldview and indirect leadership style. And it explains a lifestyle of deliberate refrain due, at least in part, to conviction.
    "I go first.
    Because I am both a lady and a gentleman.
    I self disclose first. because I know you are just as human as me.
    I'm not saying this to boast but to inspire a new way, a new vision. I try to create the world I want to live in. My idealism propels me, and beneath that idealism is a sober realism the realists know nothing about. Realists know about the reality of getting ahead. I live with the sober conviction that to get ahead in in this world means to climb atop others, even indirectly.
    I have sat out rather than participated. I have chosen then bottom because to climb to the top means to climb over others. And because I want to serve the least of these. Yet the reality is that I'm only sipping the coffee I am now because unfair trade exists.In my book, sins of omission don't rank too far below sins of commission in this big dominance hierarchy.
    I'm ready to pave new ways, carve out new paths where we can all win. In order to shape the world we want, we must nod to the darkness in ourselves.
    I go first.
    And I bring you up with me."
     

    @animal
    , I have a feeling you could relate to some of this. Your technique and take are different, but I know you deliberately bear the brunt of some things because you know you can handle it, and somebody needs to do it. I am also like that in areas.
     
     

    #9136
    Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I'm not sure if I should respond to this thread, since my Fi and Te are not conscious...I just wanted to say I can see this in myself too...now, I obviously need a strong and organized person/ part of myself to protect my Fi. And there is no one, literally no one (except for Animal 🙂 ) who is filling that White Knight role in my life, so, yeah, my Te has to do it. It's a survival thing.
    And I also have this strange tendency of looking for ...princesses to defend. It's weird as hell because it's not a very feminine way to act. And it's also not effective enough, since my Te is not conscious. It is an endeavor I mostly fail at. And also, if my defense is gone somewhere else, my Fi remains a bit exposed. I don't have enough white knights at my disposal to protect both myself and the people who might strike me as needing help. I think I need a better strategy for this. :))
    I also have to admit I don't really care for the social implications that much. I try to manage them but only in a very broad sense and usually also fail at that.
    It is an area of self improvement indeed, because I am very bad at it. 🙂

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