Do The Explorer Functions Facilitate Perception?

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  • #16196
    Supah Protist
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Directive

    Are Se and Ne exclusively responsible for integrating sensory data?
    This would include activities like reading, watching television and listening to music.
    Essentially, do we only experience realtime sensory input through either Se or Ne?

    #16201
    EpicEntity
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    I think most of your answers will turn out like this. Ne lead is going absorb a small bit of data with their 8th function Se. Then somewhere between Ne, Si, Ni; Si isolating and storing less than Ne making cross references between what was just stored more any then other function; finally the 5th function would create a good enough visual imagery.

    #16342
    GreenCoyote
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Se is primarily action! It is movement! Its is flowing on a path. You keep moving and doing, pushed in the direction of Ni energy.

     
    I have heard Active Se described as hot coals. Once they are lit you keep moving and cant stop (bubbling momentum). I have to exhaust myself with exercise to slow down or work a lot to burn out.

    #16343
    EpicEntity
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    On going theory: I use Ne cross references but everything goes back to the main reference point of Ni (my ego). Being Pe lead I can tie anything back to the main reference point.

    #16345
    Tea
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I go back and forth on this, thinking perhaps information intake happens via Pe ... and then thinking that information intake comes through all the functions and that the explorer functions simply have a more raw way of approaching information. In a true "approach" kind of way that's not easily satiated. Though the experience seems to be different for everyone (not all Se leads describe the physical stuff), there seems to be the same obsessive element present. @animal @fae

    #16348
    Discord
    Participant
    • Type: Unknown
    • Development:
    • Attitude: Unknown

    I was just watching a Mike Tyson clip and he mentioned the same thing that he cannot workout otherwise he gets into the flow and cannot stop.

    #16349
    Discord
    Participant
    • Type: Unknown
    • Development:
    • Attitude: Unknown

    @greencoyote @supahprotist @epickalypse
    Do you Se dominants relate to any of this? And, if so which parts specifically? This was Jung's interpretation and you may have already read it.
     
    No other human type can equal the extraverted sensation-type in realism. His sense for objective facts is extraordinarily developed. His life is an accumulation of actual experience with concrete objects, and the more pronounced he is, the less use does he make of his experience. In certain cases the events of his life hardly deserve the name 'experience'. He knows no better use for this sensed 'experience' than to make it serve as a guide to fresh sensations; anything in the least 'new' that comes within his circle of interest is forthwith turned to a sensational account and is made to serve this end. In so far as one is disposed to regard a highly developed sense for sheer actuality as very reasonable, will such men be esteemed rational. In reality, however, this is by no means the case, since they are equally subject to the sensation of irrational, chance happenings, as they are to rational behaviour.
    Such a type—the majority arc men apparently—does not, of course, believe himself to be 'subject' to sensation. He would be much more inclined to ridicule this view as altogether inconclusive, since, from his standpoint, sensation is the concrete manifestation of life—it is simply the fulness [sic] of actual living. His aim is concrete enjoyment, and his morality is similarly orientated. For true enjoyment has its own special morality, its own moderation and lawfulness, its own unselfishness and devotedness. It by no means follows that he is just sensual or gross, for he may differentiate his sensation to the finest pitch of æsthetic purity without being the least unfaithful, even in his most abstract sensations, to his principle of objective sensation. Wulfen's Cicerone des r¨cksichtlosen Lebensgenusses is the unvarnished confession of a type of this sort. From this point of view the book seems to me worth reading.
    Upon the lower levels this is the man of tangible reality, with little tendency either for reflection or commanding purpose. To sense the object, to have and if possible to enjoy sensations, is his constant motive. He is by no means unlovable; on the contrary, he frequently has a charming and lively capacity for enjoyment; he is sometimes a jolly fellow, and often a refined æsthete.
    In the former case, the great problems of life hinge upon a good or indifferent dinner; in the latter, they are questions of good taste. When he 'senses', everything essential has been said and done. Nothing can be more than concrete and actual; conjectures that transcend or go beyond the concrete are only permitted on condition that they enhance sensation. This need not be in any way a pleasurable reinforcement, since this type is not a common voluptuary; he merely desires the strongest sensation, and this, by his very nature, he can receive only from without. What comes from within seems to him morbid and objectionable. In so far as lie thinks and feels, he always reduces down to objective foundations, i.e. to influences coming from the object, quite unperturbed by the most violent departures from logic. Tangible reality, under any conditions, makes him breathe again. In this respect he is unexpectedly credulous. He will, without hesitation, relate an obvious psychogenic symptom to the falling barometer, while the existence of a psychic conflict seems to him a fantastic abnormality. His love is incontestably rooted in the manifest attractions of the object. In so far as he is normal, he is conspicuously adjusted to positive reality—conspicuously, because his adjustment is always visible. His ideal is the actual; in this respect he is considerate. He has no ideals related to ideas—he has, therefore, no sort of ground for maintaining a hostile attitude towards the reality of things and facts. This expresses itself in all the externals of his life. He dresses well, according to his circumstances ; he keeps a good table for his friends, who are either made comfortable or at least given to understand that his fastidious taste is obliged to impose certain claims upon his entourage. He even convinces one that certain sacrifices are decidedly worth while for the sake of style.
    But the more sensation predominates, so that the sensing subject disappears behind the sensation, the more unsatisfactory does this type become. Either he develops into a crude pleasure-seeker or he becomes an unscrupulous, designing sybarite. Although the object is entirely indispensable to him, yet, as something existing in and through itself, it is none the less depreciated. It is ruthlessly violated and essentially ignored, since now its sole use is to stimulate sensation. The hold upon the object is pushed to the utmost limit. The unconscious is, accordingly, forced out of its me[accent]tier as a compensatory function and driven into open opposition. But, above all, the repressed intuitions begin to assert themselves in the form of projections upon the object. The strangest conjectures arise; in the case of a sexual object, jealous phantasies and anxiety-states play a great role. More acute cases develop every sort of phobia, and especially compulsive symptoms. The pathological contents have a remarkable air of unreality, with a frequent moral or religious colouring. A pettifogging captiousness often develops, or an absurdly scrupulous morality coupled with a primitive, superstitious and 'magical' religiosity, harking back to abstruse rites. All these things have their source in the repressed inferior functions, which, in such cases, stand in harsh opposition to the conscious standpoint; they wear, in fact, an aspect that is all the more striking because they appear to rest upon the most absurd suppositions, in complete contrast to the conscious sense of reality. The whole culture of thought and feeling seems, in this second personality, to be twisted into a morbid primitiveness; reason is hair-splitting sophistry—morality is dreary moralizing and palpable Pharisaism—religion is absurd superstition—intuition, the noblest of human gifts, is a mere personal subtlety, a sniffing into every corner; instead of searching the horizon, it recedes to the narrowest gauge of human meanness.
    The specially compulsive character of the neurotic symptoms represent the unconscious counterweight to the laisser aller morality of a purely sensational attitude, which, from the standpoint of rational judgment, accepts without discrimination, everything that happens. Although this lack of basic principles in the sensation-type does not argue an absolute lawlessness and lack of restraint, it at least deprives him of the quite essential restraining power of judgment. Rational judgment represents a conscious coercion, which the rational type appears to impose upon himself of his own free will. This compulsion overtakes the sensation-type from the unconscious. Moreover, the rational type's link to the object, from the very existence of a judgment, never means such an unconditioned relation as that which the sensation-type has with the object. When his attitude reaches an abnormal one-sidedness, he is in danger of falling just as deeply into the arms of the unconscious as he consciously clings to the object. When he becomes neurotic, he is much harder to treat in the rational way, because the functions to which the physician must appeal are in a relatively undifferentiated state; hence little or no trust can be placed in them. Special means of bringing emotional pressure to bear are often needed to make him at all conscious.

    #16350
    Supah Protist
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Directive

    @jay it’s a lot to read, but I can talk about my experience of stereotypical Se. I remember as a young child going on nature walks for school. A memory that sticks out to me is either one of the teachers or the other kids noticing an animal somewhere in the distance and everyone would start looking for it after they pointed it out. I remember noticing a pattern back then, that I had a harder time spotting the animal than the other kids.
    Presently, I don’t spend a lot of time chasing after sensations. I’ll listen to music or try to make my own, but these activities are not my main focus. My main focus, currently, is trying to understand myself. I’m currently linking that most strongly to Ni in CT. Sensations really aren’t all that important to me and they never have been.

    #16351
    GreenCoyote
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    Upon the lower levels this is the man of tangible reality, with little tendency either for reflection or commanding purpose. To sense the object, to have and if possible to enjoy sensations, is his constant motive. He is by no means unlovable; on the contrary, he frequently has a charming and lively capacity for enjoyment; he is sometimes a jolly fellow, and often a refined æsthete.
     
    I relate to this, always ordering the most expensive best tasting food. I am also focused on finding myself so to speak but i have been on the journey for a while and know identity is only a part of me. There is more to life. I enjoy relaxing a lot. Kicking it with friends. Love a good laugh, laced with catharsis of course. Dry laughter is kind of annoying

    #16355
    EpicEntity
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Directive

    It's nice to read or rescan Jung's interpretation of Se. I'd say Jung got it down for the Se conscious developments in SeJi, JiSe, JeNi, NiJe. He just didn't have the resources or the minds or the cognitive users to know how vague he likely ultimately was.  I felt like I've been operating like an INTP from MBTI for about 9 years. It's only 2 years that I've been able know that I basically use Pe taking the Ni world of possibilities and zone in and make it as tangible as I can... just to see what can be.

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