Dissociative Identity Disorder and Vultology

[Celeste]

Hello y'all, this time I'm bringing up a topic that could sparkle some discussion.
The topic is Dissociate Identity Disorder (previously known as Multiple Personality Disorder for those unfamiliar with this new change) or DID for short and how it affects Vultology. As we all know DID is a very complicated condition that I don't really have vast knowledge to talk in depth about but nonetheless still enough to just draw very light observations:).
So let's go straight to the point about what I've found. While browsing through Youtube one day I stumbled upon a recommendation of video created by a SeFi girl named Chloe who has DID and shares a channel with her alters (a term used for the different people residing in her). The alters all have different values, personalities, morals, tastes, etc... Just as if they were normal existent people completely distinct from each other. Since they're the creation of the host's mind, Chloe, they all share the same "vessel" into which they function in unison thus allowing them to have full control over the mind as well as the body when they're switching with one another. Think of it as a car with passengers that alternate with each other and take the wheel when they want to or by accident.
Here's a video from her channel that shows what I'm talking about:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxqKEBoqybA&t=404s

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But even when they have the ability to control the physical/psychological as they please, their Vultology is identical to the one of the host, the SeFi girl, with some slight small energetically differences.
Now, remember that I said that their personalities are completely different and they exist as separate individuals? Thus it all made me think that the consequences would be them having different Vultologies (not sure if this is the plural, lol) that would match their inner essences and views of the world, but as you guys can see on the video it doesn't seem to be the case. In addition, the description of the Cognitive Type website says that "The mind is not divorced from the body; the two operate as an inseparable unit.".
Everything that I've said could either mean three things:
1) This is just pretending, which I doubt it or
2) Type itself remains rooted in us without the possibility of switching or changing into a different one even when there is permanent psychological trauma/damage as shown in this case and
3) My theory is completely wrong
To finish this thread; another example that further shows my point:

Spoiler

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So, what do you guys think?

[Elsie]

i've been watching this over time, as it's become a bit of a thing in the UK at the moment, increasing popularity/exposure, one thing i have noticed is that there's a disproportionate amount of pe+fi types that are diagnosed with it (i could be biased but damn they seem everywhere)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwZMdbf7-ZHKUxg49z4o6pET8aLFQBcE2
https://youtu.be/z56MIq8MC8Q

[Ninth]

Premise: I didn't watch the videos, not that it makes a difference since I'm ignorant in Vultology.
What I've learnt in my experience is that alters in dissociative disorders are not alien personalities, they're parts of the fragmented personality of the individual which are experienced as distinct and autonomous. Once the personality is unified, some of the alters' traits are lost (/solved) and others are integrated: each Alter belongs to the same System and something - inevitably - changes when a different configuration occurs. Everyone experiences configurational swings, but they're heavily pronounced in such a disorder, where the sense of coherence is out of sight. It's easier to see what's going on in DDNOS (alters, no blackout). I don't think alters should contradict the individual's cognitive structure.
I'd like to see, instead, if someone's quadra may change due to neurological trauma.

[Celeste]

I'm happy that someone else has an opinion regarding this topic, I was hoping for some feedback 🙂
Yes, I understand that alters are real and very present to the point where one wouldn't even know they're talking to someone who has a psychological split going on.
What was I trying to see is if they'd have different Vultologies since all of them have such different and characteristic personalities, but instead it seems that each represents and embodies an archetype (the protector, sexual alter, little) that can pass as personalities. By that, I'm not trying to say that they're non-existent or some kind of illusion, but the fact that pretty much the only thing that changes when they switch is the voice and mannerisms and the fact that the roles are pretty reinforced at least supports that idea to some extent.
Changing to a different quadra seems difficult since that's a whole new cognitive state that I don't think anyone has the capacity of entering, although if we're talking about changing to another type from one's own quadra that seems more plausible.

[Ninth]

I didn’t infer that you deny their existence, sorry if it sounded that way.
My point was that the individual’s got his (fragmented*) personality and I think (but that’s my idea and honestly a newborn) we may compare the experience of alters to that of a grip of a function or to autonomous complexes (with a peculiar disruption of one’s conscious states), given that alters are fragments of the one System. So, maybe, alters are incarnations of the archetypes of one’s psychological functions - not necessarily the four functions -, and since they still “operate" under the conditions of the System, I wouldn’t expect a drastic change in the subject’s cognitive type, but rather something similar to what happens when one’s in the grip or possessed by a complex.
*When I say “fragmented” I mean that the personality is still one but its parts aren’t aware one of the another, so that they experience themselves as if they were distinctively “separated”.
That's why I added that configurational changes in themselves are typical: I wanted to stress this parallel between a strongly dissociated subject and the typical subject, and that the difference, imo, lies only in the blind spots that make one lose a sense of continuity in the psychic life.
(I may be totally off, there are many things I ignore)
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Yes, it sounds very difficult!, that's why I'd like to know if structural neurological changes would make a difference: either way, the implications would be interesting.
 
 
Edit: Why do some html tags not work? °D° Am I doing something wrong?

[Celeste]

Oh, there's been a confusion... me saying that they're non-existent was due do to the fact that I called them archetypes, and I didn't want to sound heartless or robotic with that statement, that's why I had to clarify.
They don't necessarily represent the functions, but some of their characteristics are still present:
Protector= Te, makes things run smoothly and puts things in order
Sexual alter= Unhealthy Se, indulgence with pleasure and seeking of thrill with experiences
But the theory of the archetypes still makes more sense.
I agree with what you say, I also wouldn't expect a drastic change but more so a temporal infliction of the mind that can lead to permanent damage, as happens with disorders, and if you use the word fragmented, take into account that that's the usual term to refer to a typical experience and not an atypical one which is what you used it for.
 

[Animal]

In enneagram this is a worst-case-scenario for Unhealthy 9.
Nine crowns the enneagram because all people fall asleep to themselves. We develop patterns to defend ourselves from chaos - behaviors, beliefs - and these patterns end up running on automatic. The premise behind enneagram is that understanding the fixations in ourselves will help us to 'wake up' - to see the patterns so that we can have more awareness about the motives behind our actions. We all have every type within us, but there is one point where our ego gets 'fixated.'
For type 9 the sin is 'sloth' and it's not about physical laziness. It's about a person falling asleep to themselves. At the center of the gut triad, nine is about 'anger at having a body.'  This is because the body creates boundaries between the 9 and others, and on a deeper level, it represents mortality. If we were boundless, we would be at one with God, eternity and infinity - but our bodies symbolize the idea that nothing will last forever. One day, we will lose everything, even our lives. And the 9s' deepest fear is loss.
The defense patterns are so automatic and the fears so existential that it can be hard to realize what type we are fixated on. We are so used to ourselves the way we are that we can't even recognize what type is running the show. Since nine crowns the enneagram we all fall asleep to our own patterns - but nine represents this phenomenon in its purest form.
So low-health nines can have multiple personalities, or something close to it. There's a sense that parts of themselves have 'blacked out.' This is represented very well in the character Jean Grey, in XMen. She has more power than anyone else, and can do anything - her powers are boundless.  However, she is afraid of her power and can't control it, so she buries it deep within and falls asleep. As the powers eventually take hold, she splits into two parts: Jean, and Phoenix.  One is a nice, grounded person, sweetly controlling herself and staying asleep to her rage - and the other is a carnal, primal creature of desire and rage, her anger exploding into every crevice of the universe.
This phenomenon is more related to enneagram and falling asleep to oneself, than to CT.  Cognitive type is more about information processing.

[Celeste]

If you say that this whole experience of having multiple personalities is tightly related to Enneagram, or more specifically being a 9, it does sound a little bit narrowed down, don't you think?
Although it does represent developing patterns to defend from chaos, considering splitting is the mind's way of coping with trauma and that's something that I can see the correlation, some people might not relate to being a 9 and could be a 6 with different fears and desires. That's why I used the example of the archetypes since they can be a little bit more adjustable to the individuals experience and don't have so many restrictions as typology systems like Enneagram or even MBTI.
To conclude this, I wasn't talking about Cognitive Type as a whole, that's why I specifically wrote Vultology.

[Animal]

@celeste
Like I said, everyone has all the types within themselves.  Nine crowns the enneagram so, more than any other type, we all have some 'nine' in ourselves at the root. It is the root of all else. So, no matter what type we are, it's the 'nine in ourselves' that falls asleep to ourselves, which is what gives us an enneagram type.
So, in conclusion, any type might have multiple personalities, though it may be more common with people who have a heavy 9 component in their tritype. But everyone has 9 in themselves somewhere, regardless of their tritype.
So the point of bringing up 9 is to say that it crowns the enneagram, as in, it's the type that all the others stem from.
Many enneagram theorists would link psychological disorders with 'unhealthy' behaviors of specific types, and they would link MPD to 9. However, personally I've studied enneagram with very advanced groups.. and we would have a broader understanding, closer to the founders of enneagram Gurdjieff and Ichazo... who would emphasize that all types exist within all of us, and we should learn about all of the points.  So basically, my posts don't contradict the idea that it can happen to any type, but rather elucidate the psychology behind it, which entails burying trauma, falling asleep, and having the personalities arise from within the part of ourselves that we've 'fallen asleep to.'   The people in the videos also linked it to burying trauma, so... they would know, wouldn't they?

[Ninth]

Very interesting, Animal!
As you already know, I still have much to learn about the enneatypes, but there's a curious fact: I recently met someone who's got MP and he striked me as very 9ish in his gut. At his lowest point, he doesn't even "feel" parts of his body and he needs to have mindfulness sessions to restore some physical awareness. He's very afraid of feeling anger and he himself identifies with sloth.
I also noticed 7ish patterns in his defense mechanisms, which looked crucial to me since those pushed him to "rewrite" some events virtually and, as a consequence, there was a sort of a reboot in his character. Does it resonate with your knowledge/experience?

[Animal]

@ninth
Yes! Sevens 'rewriting' is a crucial aspect to the personality. Those with 7 lead, 7 wing or 7 fix will 'rewrite' the events in order to escape a reality they don't want to face, to make themselves look better etc. This is why Naranjo calls 7 'fraudulent.' (To be clear, he is not kind to any of the types, so this is not me putting down 7s or singling them out. None of the types are glamorous.)
They are good at spinning stories - the major defense mechanism is rationalization.
And with nine, not feeling parts of his body.. ouch, yeah that sounds like 9ish focus on the body and numbing.
I could see how this would set the stage for MP. Very sad. 🙁 I hope he can grow from his mindfulness sessions.

[Nymph]

Intersting topic of discussion. It doesn’t surprise me that the people in question who claim to have this disorder, their alters have the same vultology. It really is more of a defense mechanism than it is a disorder. DID is rarely diagnosed. DID-NOS is commonly diagnosed because it is usually comborbid with a complex form of PTSD. As a whole, DID is really a radical form of PTSD.
DID forms in the shadow of PTSD when a child (usually) feels they cannot escape the traumatic events and so they dissociate from these situations into their imagination -their only option of escape. This becomes a learned coping mechanism and alters come out in the form of exaggerated responses that might look like an altered personalities but are instead static flashes of repressed emotions that are trapped in time. The individual doesn’t always remember these states because DID distorts a persons perception of time.
1: No one with DID would be organized enough to create a YouTube channel and create a following,
2: There is shame involved with DID and DID-NOS.
3. Some altered dissociative states don’t believe they have DID and sabotage the host every chance they get regardless of therapy.
People with true DID are hospitalized. Those with PTSD w/ DID-NOS are in hiding.
There are all different opinions on this topic though.

[Author]

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