Consciousness and Sense of Self

Index Forums Spirituality & Philosophy Consciousness and Sense of Self

  • grockl
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: l-l-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Hi, I don’t know what I’m trying to accomplish by this post, but I just came across two interesting TED Talks about the brain hemispheres, consciousness, and the sense of self. Maybe you can help me parse out some sense into my internal ramblings or provide your own observation about this.

    I read this article that autistic brains (associated with Fi in CT) have statistically more symmetrical volume on both its hemispheres. Neurotypicals on average have bigger right hemispheres. I thought that means that people with ASD use their brains more evenly, but no, the conclusion is that they have smaller right hemisphere than average and use the left hemisphere more. That’s curious. Since the left hemisphere is indeed related to the sense of separate self, but also serial thinking, language processing, analytical mind according to Jill B. Taylor’s talk. How come autism is related to Introverted Feeling, which is about deep feelings? Is their right hemisphere anchored on the serial processing of the left hemisphere? The intuitive experiences of the right hemisphere are processed serially into an ordered line of concepts? I’m getting ahead of myself now.

    For me, I know I’m often inside of that sense of separate self, which I thought was my soul, but… it turned out maybe ego is the more suitable word for it. Then my body just does whatever it does, while I’m simultaneously thinking and feeling inside of that sense of self. So there is a body and also a mind, and their movements run in parallel. My consciousness is attending/located inside of that mind (a mind that is very controlled and directed, maybe by the effort that you can call “willpower” as it was mentioned in Model 2’s Radial vs Gravitic post) and my body often does its own thing (walking, eating, etc.) because I’m invested inwardly. It’s holding on to something, restrictive, and is causing a strain. If you know about vocal techniques, it’s akin to singing high notes in chest voice or low notes in head voice, instead of using the mixed voice. There is a “force” that is trying to go against the natural mechanistic current of the mind. Sometimes it feels as though the deep feelings are just the reactions caused by those intensively directed thoughts. These thoughts are often not directed for any external goal, but it’s rather trying to make sense of something or building a theoretical construct.

    This is just my own anecdotal personal observation of my own mind by the way, I’m not claiming other Fi’s are experiencing it this way and not trying to imply anything about Ti. I’m still not sure what the internal experience of Ti process is like (besides the qualitative effects such as emptiness, nihilism, etc. which I think Fi’s also experience). So far, someone in Discord has described it like having many thoughts with voices that aren’t your own crossing your mind. And also the experience of constantly gaslighting yourself. I now realize I also do the latter just as much as I am convincing and building a construct in my mind. However, I don’t toss out the concepts that I have falsified. I will come back to them again later if any other stream of thoughts call for them. And I have a horrible memory, so I often end up reconstructing an idea over and over again whenever I’m trying to revisit a memory (so I don’t have Si’s particularly extraordinary memory even though Si is conscious in me). Yes, that sounds dangerous and I’m trying to remember things more accurately, but it’s hard to do. I used to be able to remember song lyrics effortlessly, so I made a song out of words that I wanted to remember, but it seems even that ability is deteriorating too.

    And I just realized I’m not even talking about spirituality anymore in this thread. But the TED talks do, and I hope you find them interesting at least.

    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by grockl.
    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by grockl.
    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by grockl.
    Cedar
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I know there’s something more than just our brains functioning. We are surrounded and filled with consciousness…to an unnecessary level. I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard or thought about the hard problem of consciousness. As much as I love science, there is more than we can currently pick up on using that medium. I fundamentally know that we are spiritual beings having a human experience. I agree with Jill that we can tap into that spiritual bliss and loving awareness if we choose to…keeping in mind that it is easier for some and harder for others. Some things are helpful like meditation, holotropic breathwork, psychedelics, etc.

    If we use psychology, when it comes to separate parts of the self, there’s our ego, other segments of us that were damaged along the way, and then our compassionate observer. Have you ever heard of the Advaita Vedanta philosophy of Jivatman, Atman, and Brahman? It is how I see things are set up for all of us. For me it cleared things up and made all of the pieces fit together. It’s not for everyone though 😉

    As for Fi and autism, my stepson is autistic and has some additional disorders. He has no depth of feelings, so I agree that there’s a disconnect on how those relate. Many folks on the spectrum do have deep feelings, but just as many don’t. Perhaps it has more to do with Te and Si?

    You had a lot of great things to mull over. It’s fun to think and discuss this stuff!

    grockl
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: l-l-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    Hi @cedar. Thank you for chiming in.

    I agree with you that science can’t pick up on everything we experience. There is this quest for immortality in science and one of the ways some think we can extend our life is through mind uploading. That is something that I know isn’t possible based on fact that if someone copy your mind into multiple minds, each of them will have separate consciousness and that doesn’t compute as the unified “you” you’re currently experiencing. They all might somehow be connected to each other to create some sort of a hive mind. But the possibility that they might not, has principally shattered the possibility of mind uploading.

    I have heard about Advaita Vedanta but hasn’t dived deep into it yet. It’s an interesting concept. Our memory plays a large part in how we may experience consciousness. If you take those memories away, what’s left will be pure consciousness.

    Regarding your stepson, I’m sorry. Are you sure it’s not just that he doesn’t know how to convey those feelings? This “disconnection to heart” has indeed been mentioned by Auburn in Fi Behavior page Alexithymia & Dissociation section, I just noticed. I have experienced this too, Auburn eerily describes it with so much accuracy. (Except maybe it doesn’t feel “unnatural” for me. Permeability is unnatural.)

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by grockl.
    Cedar
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @grockl I agree that if you upload your mind, it would cease to be you. Also, death is what gives life its value. If we bypass that inevitable end, what is lost of who we are supposed to evolve to? I personally believe that we can’t outrun the inescapable. We must pass through these stages of growth and development to complete transformations. If we attempt to avoid that which must be experienced, we become stagnant beings. The mind is the ego/jivatman, our Atman will continue to grow and blossom. The ego/jivatman being stuck in an simulation wouldn’t hold your spiritual being/Atman as it is never incarnated. The Atman would receive what it was supposed to learn, even if jivatman made a silly choice to get stuck in a simulation. I believe there would be a cost to pay in future incarnations since we didn’t pass as intended. Important growth comes from the process of death, for us and others and it cannot be avoided. Besides, on a practical level, it would be fun for a short amount of time, but the prospect of ages in a simulation seems horribly pointless.

    One thing that makes me uneasy about CT is the dipping into mental health territory since it can be detrimental to people who aren’t in a healthy place…and that’s all of us at one point or another. When discussing these maladaptive strategies, there needs to be a lot of sensitivity, education and awareness…and this is not the appropriate place for that. (@grockl I don’t mean you in this paragraph) There’s so much we don’t even know about the human condition and how it impacts people. I’d trust a forum of professionals over speculation. That being said, there may be correlation/causation at play between survival strategies and innate personality types, but it would take actual open discussions with professions to parse that out and not the context of CT.  To my knowledge, this is an interest of Auburn and he does not have a masters or doctorate in psychology or the like.

    As for the article, my stepson is able to communicate his feelings. They just aren’t there…it’s actually a very unfortunate diagnosis.

    I know people who are disconnected from their hearts, and so far many of them have been Fi leads. They are lovely people who can’t see themselves as they truly are. They seem to take an abuser relationship to themselves, which is really sad.

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