About Se – Locked on Eyes

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  • Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I have a question about Se 3 – Locked on Eyes. I wanted to ask it for a while but for some reason I completely forgot about it and just remembered it yesterday.

    Auburn starts to talk about it here at 1:27 :

    I have to say I don’t think I generally select a certain object at a time and focus on it. I am usually oblivious of the environment and  locked in my thoughts.

    I admit that when I am making videos of myself I tend to focus on my image on the screen, but that’s different, that’s me! I can’t look away when I see myself talking or at least it would be hard for me to do so. Also, I am an object that drives all my attention :))) because I sway my body a lot while talking and because my face is very expressive. This makes me tend to stare at myself but in normal conversation I don’t usually stare at people or at anything in the environment while talking.

    I am pretty sure I am Se lead though. Because I show most Se signals and part of the Ni signals, so I really think my typing is correct.

    This issue basically became apparent to me when Candy Drinker asked me if I look at things while talking. And I usually don’t. In case I do, I don’t really notice the objects I see…at a conscious level. Because at some level I do notice them, of course, I am not blind, I see them. 🙂

    I normally stare at objects in the environment in these situations :

    – when they are beautiful AND I don’t have something else on my mind;

    – when I am trying to learn something  or to absorb images that are instructive;

    – when something is shocking, looks weird, disturbing, unfitted with the environment, ugly…you get the idea;

    – when I try to understand something about an object, its functions, its meaning, its connections to other objects etc. ;

    – when I am actively building memories (for example when I see a completely new place that I will not see again soon).

    When I am speaking to someone, I rarely look at any object in front of me. Even if my eyes are drifting in that direction, I don’t really absorb those images or think about them.

    My focus is not that good. If it’s inward, it can’t also be outward. So, when talking and thinking, I rarely see or acknowledge I see stuff from the room I am in.

    Most of the time I am absent minded and many people have accused me of this several times.

    So, what I would like to know is if I am a defective Se lead and I don’t Se well enough lol :)) or if other Se leads relate to what I described above. Maybe our focus can just go inside or outside and when it’s inside we still look like we stare at something, because that’s how our eyes look…but actually we are not there at all. :))

    In the end if it appears like we are locking on, this sign is completely correct even if in reality we don’t absorb those images or even realize we are seeing them.

    But I think it’s an issue to analyze.

    So – Se leads and Se conscious people – DO YOU GENERALLY LOOK AT OBJECTS? :))

    I am not even sure if this question is expressed correctly – when speaking to friends, do you look at stuff on the table or on the walls or at anything like that? Do you notice things from the environment? Are they relevant to you? Do people generally consider you a person who observes stuff or who is completely in another world? 🙂 Or a combination of both?

    It would be great if Ne users contributed too. Do you guys look at things?? :))) Or do you think your thoughts and feel your feels and just use your eyes to navigate the environment or to do some of the stuff I described above ?

    Oh ! Another thing – I can intensify my gaze on purpose, for example when people take pictures of me. If it’s intense…it doesn’t mean it also absorbs images. I can put intent in my eyes without doing anything else with them, so, my eyes can be expressive without being receptive. Which means if we look like we are locking on, it doesn’t necessarily mean we do. But, of course, the reason could be that Se eyes are so used to locking on that they can easily portray that when needed, so I am not sure I am making any point here. :))

     

    • This topic was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Bera.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Bera.
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    @Bera
    I agree with you. I do have intense focus, but it’s more like tunnel vision. Like I take in an over-saturated version of what matters and block out everything else.

    My family mocks me for missing what’s right in front of me…. this has been an ongoing joke in my family.  Also, I recently played a drawing game with Ivory & my FeNi friend – where we wrote many many words on papers, folded them up into a hat and had to pick from the hat and draw the words, and the other people had to guess what it was. I could not draw a lot of simple things, like “a clown,”  “the Empire State Building” (I live in NY) …. because I could not think of a visual marker or how that thing looked. Whereas the two of them had no problem with it.  This was not about a lack of drawing skills since the point of the game could be accomplished in stick figures and outlines. I just really could not visualize anything.

    I only focus on things that get my attention, and it’s more like I’m “hooked into the energy” than I am obsessing over the visual contours. That said, with people I care about, or places I love, I remember every tiny feature. If I could draw, I could probably draw every contour of my husband’s body from memory – or even exes that I had dated 2 decades ago and haven’t seen. I also remember how they speak, how they move etc.  But I don’t know what the Empire State Building looks like even though I live in NY, because I don’t care.   Noticing things like that, interrupts my “flow.”

    I do agree that Se is about ‘focus’ because I seem to over-focus, mentally, on that which matters.. and be blind to the rest. I also agree that it’s about ‘flow,’ since I really understand the movement of things, intuitively… like how events are unfolding and have unfolded before, real life examples etc. I relate strongly to what Jung says about “realism” – and having a highly realistic view of how things are, or have always been, with concrete examples. But it’s not about what’s “in front of me right now” or having a good picture-perfect view. This would require more Pi, I think, since Pi actually puts things together from a wider perspective.   Some Pi leads, like @sitbone , can draw hyper-realistic drawings.  I don’t know any Se leads who draw well, but of course my personal experience is limited. What we do well, is we notice reality unfolding before us. We may or may not care about gossip, but we notice what people are up to, who is gravitating to who etc. We just see the contours of reality in front of us as it unfolds.

     

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Animal.
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    My focus is not that good. If it’s inward, it can’t also be outward. So, when talking and thinking, I rarely see or acknowledge I see stuff from the room I am in.

    This is, to me, “focus” and “flow,” which Auburn outlined quite well. I don’t agree with what he said about Se people saying “this person moved like this, put their arm here, and then did that…” I don’t see how this is related to Se. That sounds more like a Ji function, delineating steps.  Personally, I could never copy movements. It was a problem. My mother had to explain to me how to tie my shoes in words because I couldn’t “break it down” and figure it out by watching. In dance class, the teacher thought I wasn’t even trying to learn the moves; but in reality, I was trying my best but simply could not figure out how to ‘copy’ what’s in front of me by breaking down the moves. I need it to be explained in words. I left every class crying.

    The funny thing is, I got much better at this when I was older. We have theorized that I developed Ji after the illness; and that’s exactly when I got better at it. Coincidence? Maybe.

    But it’s very obvious to me that saying “this goes here, that goes there” and doing a mental breakdown is Ji, not Se.  And it is specifically Ti, the way he wrote it – so maybe it’s easier for SeTi’s even if their Ti isn’t developed, because it’s still “there.”  For me it probably required the whole FiTe oscillation to even approach that. However, I do know ‘who gravitates to who’ and how relationships work, and how people feel about other people, and all these hidden things about people’s personal feelings, a la Fi.  (And yes, I  do get confirmation that I’m often right. This isn’t an assumption.)

    I don’t see how doing a “mental breakdown” of components of moves has anything to do with Se, so I am strongly against that being in the top few descriptors of Se. But of course, it’s up to Auburn not me 😀 this is just my strong opinion.

    The rest of what he wrote about focus and flow, I couldn’t agree more with it. This is part of why I DON’T notice “this and that,” all the little things around me; nor do I  ‘break down the components of physical moves.’ Because I’m in a flow, in motion with reality, kind of ‘dancing along with the rhythm of the world.’ This isn’t always conscious, but it makes perfect sense to me, what he says, that Se leads are happiest when they’re ‘flowing’ physically or with reality. I’m not a sports person, but nothing made me happier than being physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually CONSUMED in music; a vessel through which it emerges. The moment is so absolutely complete. There’s like a super-nowness, a strong vitality, a sense of complete and absolute presence when I’m “in the flow.”

    But this also means that I’m NOT open to noticing little random distractions around me. I’m “locked in” to the thing I’m doing, the thing I’m thinking about, the one thing in my mind.  Being distractible and noticing various ‘random’ things seems more Ne to me, but I’m  not attached to that idea. Maybe it’s ADD, or ADHD, or something else. But for me personally, being immersed in “focus and flow” makes it impossible to notice random objects.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Animal.
    Ivory
    Participant
    • Type: TiSe
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    I mostly glace at things, I rarely take them in deeply. I stare a lot. Ji lead, I know, but still…

    I am more attuned to movement in my environment than to noticing and remembering concrete objects.

    I only really notice ‘stuff’ around me when I am in observer mode, meaning that I am then engaged in analysis of my environment. Judging, not perceiving.

    When I am ‘in the (Se) flow,’ I don’t see the world around me as separate items. There is no distinction made between items, because.. flow. Making any sort of assessment of things puts me out of the flow.

    I am a klutz when it comes to the “get this item from over there”-type of instructions. My mind does not compute. Get what from the what? Je-heavy people tend to be the biggest critics of me in this area.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Ivory.
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    When I am ‘in the (Se) flow,’ I don’t see the world around me as separate items. There is no distinction made between items, because.. flow. Making any sort of assessment of things puts me out of the flow.

    YES. THIS.

    Rua
    Moderator
    • Type: NeTi
    • Development: ll-l
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    I have been trying to find some Se-leads to try and get a better grasp of what Se-dom looks like. Came across an interesting one that’s relevant here, seeing as his job is to literally break down the potentially lethal movements of the human body systematically in order to ensure a fair and safe playing field for professional fighters:

    Herb Dean (SeTi) II-I [Directive]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiGMStO5G4&t=3886s

    Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @Animal

    My family mocks me for missing what’s right in front of me…. this has been an ongoing joke in my family.

    Exactly ! I simply don’t see many things that are right in front of my nose. And I think I am still looking at them in a focused way. But I am mostly thinking about something completely different, that has no connection to what is in front of me.

    I could not draw a lot of simple things, like “a clown,”  “the Empire State Building” (I live in NY) …. because I could not think of a visual marker or how that thing looked.

    Same here ! I have 0 drawing skills, despite having good taste and an appreciation for beauty. I can imagine all sorts of situations and I can visualize complex images in vivid colors and with a dreamy vibe…BUT I can just imagine them, I can not properly remember real details of real objects in the real world. This extends to people and to their faces. Even loved ones. When I remember them, I don’t usually visualize them, I just remember things they said or did and then immediately go from memories to exploring possible ideas connected to them and to imagining scenarios in which they take part (where how they look is completely irrelevant, the scenario is like a story, it’s not image based though images can appear now and then).

    We may or may not care about gossip, but we notice what people are up to, who is gravitating to who etc. We just see the contours of reality in front of us as it unfolds.

    I can usually see this too ! It’s a useful skill. But I only tend to pay attention to the stuff that directly impacts me or the people I care about. It can be pretty complex though and it can involve whole group dynamics, since everyone is connected to everyone. 🙂 But if I am not impacted in any way, I generally don’t pay attention to these things, so, for example, I don’t read articles containing gossip about celebrities. It’s too far removed from my life.

    Regarding Pi leads and Pi conscious people – they seem to have better general orientation. @Staas mentioned this at some point. I also have a friend who is most probably TeNi and who draws very well. She seems to see things in perspective, which I don’t. 🙂 But of course this also depends on talent and on practicing until you master a skill.


    @Ivory

    When I am ‘in the (Se) flow,’ I don’t see the world around me as separate items. There is no distinction made between items, because.. flow. Making any sort of assessment of things puts me out of the flow.

    This makes a lot of sense. It feels as if everything is connected to everything else and happening in a sequence and pretty fast. And it’s hard to think about particular objects taken out of the flow.

    But I can be in the flow while looking at beautiful images. There is a certain state I can reach in which admiring beautiful images IS the flow. But in order for this to happen I need peace of mind and a consistent image input.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Bera.
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    @Rondo

    I’m III-  and my current job is to clean up my 1000 page novel, which is intellectually complex. In the past I’ve recorded and produced very professional albums where I’ve broken down the components of different instruments in other people’s recordings to figure out how to achieve a certain sound exactly. I still don’t know what this has to do with Se, though 🙂 😀

    I mean, Se leads might be able to do such things especially with developed other functions – but I don’t really see it being ‘inherent to’ Se itself. Does that make sense? If you think I’m wrong, I’d love to know why, on a fundamental level – how Pe does this specific thing. It’s just not something I’ve personally been able to wrap my mind around.

    It took a lot of practice and maturity to learn these skills. However, when I was 8 years old music wrote itself through me because I was automatically wired to be ‘in the flow.’

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Animal.
    • Type: NeTi
    • Development: l---
    • Attitude: Adaptive

    what he said about Se people saying “this person moved like this, put their arm here, and then did that…” I don’t see how this is related to Se. That sounds more like a Ji function, delineating steps.

     

    sounds like PeTi

    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    @puffs, that might make sense. It certainly isn’t SeFi.

    Tea
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: l--l
    • Attitude: Seelie

    I think Se may shifting between two (or more) sets, so it may not be locking onto objects so much as fields. Each field marks an idea or whatever in space (just how we assign semantic/syntactic domains in sign languages).

    Let me know what you think.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Tea.
    Bera
    Moderator
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: ll--
    • Attitude: Seelie

    @tea – I’m not sure. I can focus on specific objects too.

    I think everyone has a certain amount of energy that can be spent in different ways. Focus takes energy. So, if for example half of the time I am focusing on contracts and issues at work and the other half on the chat 🙂 – there is no more energy left to be directed anywhere else. So, I might not focus on external objects so much simply because I don’t have the necessary time or energy to do so.

    What is happening could be a combination of Se and Fi-Te. There are priorities and I adapt my sensory input to attain what is most important. It’s not crucial to see that a lady on the street has a red umbrella but it is important to reach deadlines and to determine whether God exists or not. :))

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Bera.
    Animal
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: lll-
    • Attitude: Unseelie

    What is happening could be a combination of Se and Fi-Te. There are priorities and I adapt my sensory input to attain what is most important. It’s not crucial to see that a lady on the street has a red umbrella but it is important to reach deadlines and to determine whether God exists or not. :))

    That’s right! I agree completely, @bera. I think you just honed in on one of the biggest problems with the current Pe descriptions – it makes it sound as if Pe leads cannot differentiate the foreground from the background. This is not true.

    Pe leads get really really really caught up in things; hence the ‘addictive’ tendencies. We throw ourselves fully into something and it’s stimulating. I would imagine Se-Ni holeism and Se “focus” actually applies over the long-run as well; in the sense that Ne might like to keep their options open, so they may be unlikely to commit to a certain direction in life; but I don’t necessarily see this as an over-arching theme with Se leads. Even in the wolfpit chat, we tend to focus on one topic for a long time, without topic-hopping to entertain each divergent thought. Likewise, Se leads tend to know what it is that we’re into , and what we’re not into. There isn’t this sense that we need to do “everything” and explore any divergent possibility that might arise.  Instead, we dive too deep  into a thing, immersing ourselves in it.  There may even be an obsessional quality here. (At least for me.)

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Animal.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Animal.
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