Reply To: Se Realism, Ne Surrealism & Identity

[Vive]

[QUOTE] It has indeed been Deltas, more than Gammas, that display their idiosyncratic beliefs in a way that seems out of tune with reality. And I do see that Gammas are rather quick to orient themselves to something like CT if it can be shown — because it can be shown (CT is rather Se-friendly in that the data is real and available), while Ne+Fi can struggle a bit more to accept the constraints (Ne dislikes constraints!) to reality and what the self can be imagined as being or not being.[/QUOTE]
I'm NeFi and I appreciate CT, because it can be shown. Without something concrete to hold on to my mind never stabilizes. If I wouldn't have been typed with the help of a bunch of people agreeing on my typing (both in Enneagram and Jung-related systems) along with CT I still would be changing my perspective every so often. The more 'objective' way of typing has actually helped me stabilize my view. I appreciate that. I actually think it's much better than me continually re-appraising myself. Re-appraising myself is usefu,l, but I think there should be a limit to how much I should do that. There are things about me that rarely/never change and I want to have a good view of those things too.

@Animal
I've seen your posts, I think I will respond in a somewhat fragmented manner as there is a lot of information here.
[QUOTE]Why not do both? Why not do everything? Ne can do ALL the things, while Se can only do one thing.” Am I supposed to think that makes Se inferior? Me personally, I find great value in staying in my lane and developing it to the fullest. It’s obvious that Ne people are better at science, new discoveries, and so much more – so why not let them do it and appreciate that from where I sit? But many Ne users want it both ways. “Type me, but don’t limit me.” Russ Hudson wanted it both ways(...) he ended up reducing the essential meaning to a state where people are using his cartoonish caricatures to abuse each other and create exclusive “typing clubs,” which is exactly what Gurdjieff and Ichazo warned against. [/QUOTE]
For me personally I don't really think I'm limitless. It's more, I see potential and I want to start working towards actualizing it NOW. Then you come across a new thing, which is also interesting and you see how it can be useful to you start working on that too. Then another thing comes along and another and another. Before you know it you are tangled up in many things and if you keep going you will be spread so thin you cannot do any of the things you've set to do. Without any proper focus on what's real you will lose your grip and drift away with every wind that comes. If you would truly want to explore something I think you should do so with intend while keeping the things that ground you in mind. Remembering what is most important to you and also what your weaknesses are in order to ground you. So, when the worst winds come, you can stay grounded. Perhaps Russ Hudson let the winds take him too much.
[QUOTE] In my world, science, medicine, out of space exploration etc — matter — but open ended possibilities just feels like a waste of thought and extremely unsatisfying too. If I imagine myself doing that it feels like I don’t exist. It makes me feel cold, lost and purposeless.[/QUOTE]
I must honestly say that I also find just chasing open ended possibilities to be extremely unsatisfying. It often leads nowhere and even if it leads you somewhere you need to properly hone in on what you've discovered and dive into that deeply, otherwise you might waste a good opportunity.
[QUOTE]I have no interest in escaping human nature or laws of nature. Art allows me to express it more honestly and thus transform cathartically, burning away my lower potentials to make room for me to rise. Stories and songs write themselves through me and present symbolism that helps me to see myself bare and thus process my suffering. The art is a mirror exposing parts of myself that I otherwise might not have seen, or wouldn’t have wanted to see. But there they are. So I FACE myself.[/QUOTE]
I don't think I ever desired to escape reality either. I mean I wasn't very connected to the present moment, but I always saw my fantasy as an extension of myself and a reflection of myself. In fantasy subtext can become corporeal, a living being or it can manifest as some type of energy. Anybody's fantasy is full of symbolism. I love that stuff. Other than that I often looked towards the future to see what I could do/can be, but it didn't include a desire to escape what is or a disappointment with what is. Just as much as I looked forward to what was ahead, I also agonized over it. Being very worried about whether I could handle what would come next. Compared to my fantasy and imagined potentials (be it negative or positive) reality can often be a relief. I often find myself thinking 'Oh, it isn't that bad' as I am a negativist by nature.
Se seems grounded in the moment, when Ne isn't at all. If you are grounded that's fine, but it's important to see that sometimes things aren't as straightforward as they seem. Ne is prone to a sort of untetheredness and a lot of speculation, so I think it is best if those with it learn to find a way to ground themselves, so they know when to grab onto things and keep their feet on the ground.