Home 2023 › Forums › General Psychology › Lessons from my breakthrough
Hi everyone,
I am pretty sure that I have brought Se/Fe to consciousness through a series of synchronistic events. Watch the video to see a small glimpse of my experience and the lessons I learned. As I say in the video, I think many will be attracted here to CT and this is probably a place of high synchronicity, therefore people will need help in their quest which some, like me through my experience, can offer. Also, my consciousness feels kind of "fresh" so please forgive my articulation,
https://youtu.be/VDY4GG4taGI
@scientiam , congratulations!! I'm still trying to soak in everything you describe, and I'm learning so much from you. What you say about the wolf spirit, and how you had to embrace it in yourself - releasing judgment of it - is correlating to a few other members' experiences which, when put together, seem to start offering a genuine psychonalaytical (and dare I say spiritual) pathway to growth and development. I'm so excited at the prospect of documenting growth and possibly developing real methodologies from these insights!
And yes, what's even crazier is that we can actually see the success in the vultology itself! That is to say, a change in the vultology is reflective of the inner work-- which itself is instrumental in informing practitioners of where a person is at in their journey; whether they've gotten somewhere new yet or may still have key material pending integration.
Indeed, your vultology has drastically shifted since your first videos. To present just a bit of what I see now:
2:35

^ Fe Warm Swelling + Je Demonstrative Hands
Although you demonstrated a few hand gestures before, they lacked any force or impact-- being restrained by a type of inner doubt (Ti clamping)-- which now appears to be released. Your gesticulations run free all the way out to the audience, having a forward vector which is what characterizes Je consciousness. We see this also here:
1:27

^ Fe Warm Swelling + Je Demonstrative Hands
..And in many other places in the video. This has also been happening steadily over the past video sessions you've made, and I've noticed the change culminating to the present. Your speech itself is also able to move forward at a faster pace.
But I also think you are right to say it's not only Fe that has been developed. We can see the vultological signals of Pe alongside Je, for example here:
1:44

^ Pe Body Swaying + Pe Bubbling Momentum + Fe Warm Swelling ...ending in Fe On-Beat Emphasis
Th GIF above is a moment that could very well be seen in the SeTi l-l- or FeNi l-l- type. It's quite far from your first TiSe l-l- videos. Your body is now embedded with a newfound fluidity which, when combined with your existing Ni, make you P-heavy:
3:08

3:14

The above two GIFs taken in isolation would suggest a Polarized P-lead Beta. In these GIFs you look a lot like our member @supahprotist - with a combination of both Ni hypnotic zone-outs and Pe casualness and grounded presence.
Lastly, and most obviously:
4:03

^ J Rigid Posture + Ji Meticulous Hands + Ti Delicate Pinching
1:15

^ Ji Momentum Halting + Ji Eyes Disengage Down
You nonetheless retain your Ti, its dominance in your psyche and how it contains all other signals in its structure. Your vultology reminds me a lot of Faeruss now, which finally presents an opportunity to contrast types even when as closely neighboring as TiSe llll and FeNi llll.
Congrats, Adrian! I'm proud of you man š
@auburn, thank you so much! I don't think I would have been able to achieve this without CT theory and the CT community, I'm so grateful ??. Yes, there is a lot to unpack from the experience and I have a lot to say, but my spirit is teaching me not to get ahead of myself with my enthusiasm. I have to learn restraint, patience, commitment, and compassion or otherwise I'll mistake cockiness/arrogance for confidence/strength.
@courtjester: Jason, thank you man. I'm rooting for you too!?
Watched the video in its entirety ----
I should first say that I'm very happy for both you and courtjester that your transformations and corresponding inner work has had such positive influences in your life; this was also the case for myself and of course we would always hope that the transformations would be positive, and yet I am still of the belief that a transformation forced before its time can be highly negative. In summary, the Self has to want the change (in most cases I think this will resemble a series of crises and a certain level of desperation for new solutions to be already present) and the psyche also has to be sending signals that the transformation is "called for" rather than being forced by the Ego onto the Self. That last sentence I think is very much in line with what you've (scientiam) said in the video above about the psyche and the universe being in a 1:1 alignment. The rational part of me tells me this phenomenon has far more to do with the psyche correctly calibrating itself to the universe and much less so the other way around, but I can't discount the possibility that it's a two-way street, as I do believe that what we give out to others is returned to us, just often in a form that we weren't expecting. And yes it is extremely difficult to articulate these things, especially so soon after the key transformational event, when the psyche is still re-calibrating and the novelty and positive emotion has a level of intoxication that doesn't always lend itself to clear and orderly articulation of the processes that underlie it.
One thing that is absolutely key, and which you mentioned pretty early into the video, is forgiveness. You saw the way in which that little wolf, which was an unacknowledged but always present part of yourself, was free of the blame and the hurt that had been placed on it. And I think most importantly, when we forgive ourselves for the hurt and the judgment we hold against parts of ourselves we have sequestered and diminished, the way is opened for a fuller forgiveness of all the lashings and abuses we have suffered, and for forgiving others of their trespasses against us. I truly believe that no matter what is done to a human being by anyone or anything else, that that individual human being's soul will always be an intensely personal responsibility, and that no one can or should tell you what to do in that regard, only provide guidance if it is asked for.
Unsure where else to go with this post for now, other than to say I am overjoyed at seeing these positive transformations. I'm certain CT will continue to be an extremely useful framework for psychological healing and integration, and I very much look forward to further developments and discussions concerning this aspect of CT, as I find these positive changes and transformational processes to be the most personally interesting and fulfilling part of the whole endeavor, especially as they will inevitably ripple out and enrich the world at large. It is real: it works; that is more than enough.
Edit -- Ah yes, one thing I should add. I am not alone in finding the principle of Exposure Therapy (gradual deconditioning of a terrifying stimulus or complex) to be the most important and universally applicable practice that anyone can use to improve their quality of life. However, what is extremely important to state is that it doesn't feel good as it's happening. It feels uncomfortable, it feels deeply unsettling and fearful, but when the fear is conquered it can become impossible to see that it was ever there at all, so transitory is the fear and so permanent is the psyche in its totality. Breakthroughs feel amazing, they can be outright euphoric, but the way for the breakthrough is paved with many smaller struggles with uncomfortable things that are easier to ignore or diminish, or that may be occluded entirely by our dominant psychic functioning. Unfortunately the thoughts and feelings we repress behave just like boomerangs, always returning to us.
And to return to something mentioned in the initial video here, namely cannabis, I will say that I have used cannabis as an emotional crutch for swaths of my life (for good and ill), but that I do think it was instrumental in allowing my emotional processing to reach the level of a breakthrough in the first place (so closed-off had I become), as it can help shift the mind those few degrees needed to see a better, more integrative path. This is not a ringing endorsement of any and all cannabis use (for one thing because its role in triggering early-onset schizophrenia is too well-known to be ignored by any but its most ardently ignorant ideologues), but now that it's "on the table" I think it would be disingenuous of me not to acknowledge that it played an important and positive role in my emotional processing as well, though I would be lying if I said that I always used it in a positive and proper way (with the integration of Fe it became much much easier for me to distinguish an impulse from an initiative, especially in the moment in which it arises). So locked into our mindsets can we become that we will ignore the most obvious things with remarkable ease. Indeed the psyche is an instrument of occlusion primarily, not perception; we are conditioned to see what is seen as useful to us, and to ignore the other 99% of the data that would interfere severely with the ability to chart and navigate a single path through the chaos.
@rondo, What is interesting is that I love cannabis and I gave it up years ago since I thought it was what led me to be submerged into the unconscious (and that shit was scary!), but I think back on it now it seems like it was part of the healing process to go through that, just like this time it was also part of the process towards healing/integration.
However, it's not something I would recommend for everyone. In the end, I think it is more how the individual chooses to follow their guiding principle (the Self/Universe/Spirit/God) and where it takes them towards salvation/integration. If weed is part of the process, then it will be. That's one thing I had to accept: trust the process and the gentle/harsh push that is guiding it. I saw a video today where I saw this quote, and I think it matches what I think:
There is only one way and that is your way; there is only one salvation and that is your salvation.
Why are you looking around for help?
Do you believe that help will come from outside?
What is to come is created in you and from you.
Hence look into yourself Do not compare, do not measure.
No other way is like yours.
All other ways deceive and tempt you.
You must fulfill the way that is in you.
~Carl Jung, The Red Book, Page 231
I haven't had a chance to watch this whole thing yet (I still didn't respond to your last video), but what stands out to me is JOY.
(On Fe, "Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit." Proverbs 18:21. NKJV)
Addendum: In the video I posted above, I was still intoxicated by the release and flow of energy that I had attained, in which I can see/feel now how that marks the difference between a "compressed" and "uncompressed" consciousness (that is why I am so joyous/free in the video). However, now that I have settled into my "uncompressed" consciousness, it seems like my "core" energy is still Ti-Ni, flowing into Se, then into Fe and that I sometimes feel "blockage" (and that is when I know something is wrong). Meaning that an emotional problem (as has been the case for me) can "block" the free release of both my Se-Fe (more Fe than Se). I think this is tied to how I attained my development, as this is also mentioned in the article on function consciousness (though I can't find where) on "regressing" to a previous developmental state. I got my development through delving deep into emotional/self-hate problems and therefore I have to keep that realm "free" of emotional blockages otherwise back I go to "compressing" my consciousness. I wonder what other people who have IIII development have to say about this and whether they experience the same thing ( @rondo and @faeruss ?).
Hey @scientiam, interesting. I haven't watched the video, but I don't relate to the issue of blockages. Though as you say, if how you came to develop functions is an important variable, then it makes sense, because my development was slow and not due to dealing with emotional issues. I do feel like Se is more in the background, probably because it was the last function I developed, but it always feels accessible.
I got my development through delving deep into emotional/self-hate problems and therefore I have to keep that realm āfreeā of emotional blockages otherwise back I go to ācompressingā my consciousness. I wonder what other people who have IIII development have to say about this and whether they experience the same thing
Hmm, I have given some thought to this, though not in the terms of compressed and uncompressed consciousness (still hoping for further clarification from The Aubs on those terms *fingers crossed/livestock sacrificed*) . And also yours (@scientiam) is quite an interesting case, and could well turn out to be an outlier in terms of a personal development pathway, as you "unblocked" both of your E functions at the same time. I started from a native E, then developed both introverted functions. And, as was the case for you as well, I also needed to process "emotional/self-hate problems" before I could access Fe in a controlled manner. I did notice that after the "high" of the breakthrough wore off, that my energy did return to a state that felt quite similar to my prior configuration, but that Fe could be accessed whenever there was a want/need for it, which would seem to be an echo of what Faeruss has said above.
As I'm sure you're well aware, personal growth and development doesn't stop when we have four little sticks next to our forum names, it continues each and every day; processing/integrating our life experiences only ends when we die. Perhaps because Fe was my last function to develop, I did notice (~a month ago) that when I started to allow myself to stagnate, when I wasn't holding myself accountable for who I wanted to be and the steps I needed to take each day to get there, that Fe was the first function to "fall by the wayside", and yet even then it was accessible. I think it is a natural thing to fear losing something (especially when it has only recently been gained), and perhaps because both of your extroverted functions came at the same time this is especially poignant for you. I think it is only natural that your configuration begins shifting back towards the double introversion, as that was the configuration your psyche has had more time/experience with.
I have no experiences I could use as evidence for having lost conscious use of a function already gained, but I can say that personal stagnation will likely make anyone feel as if something is being lost: what is lost in such a case is the potential we know we possess, but do not manifest. In terms of needing to keep emotional channels free to maintain conscious Fe, that may be a pattern that we continue to see, particularly with non-lead Fe, or Ti>Fe users, but it's hard to say at this point (my hunch would be that that is a dynamic that will continue cropping up). However, I do very much relate to the dynamic, and it certainly seems possible to me that, if I began cutting off my emotions as I have done before, I could return to a point where Fe would not be visible in my vultology. It is my choice whether or not I allow that to happen.
I suppose that what I would say is that it is complacency that has to be fought in order to continue development, in any form or domain. Complacency tells us, "Eh, that was enough." The drive to become more than what we currently are or have been tells us, "I can do more. I will do more." I think that as long as you stay mindful of the emotional problems that arise from the past and the present, and continue to be willing to work through them, that nothing of value can be taken from you. That which is earned in the Self is kept, but earning is a matter for today, not yesterday or tomorrow.
Firstly, thank you faeruss and rondo for replying š
I have given some thought to this, though not in the terms of compressed and uncompressed consciousness (still hoping for further clarification from The Aubs on those terms *fingers crossed/livestock sacrificed*) .
I can try to describe these terms from what I think it is as derived from my experience and then @auburn can confirm/deny it and give a more technical definition. By āuncompressedā I mean the free and unfettered flow of energy/information/action coming from the psyche. While ācompressedā means the restricted/clamped energy/information/action coming from the psyche. That means that since we all āuseā our four functions, itās not use but rather the functions that are conscious that we give free and independent reign to and are therefore āuncompressed āand unrestricted. Well, it could be the case too that conscious, unrestricted introverted functions restrict extroverted functions (as it did with me) so perhaps it is better to say that conscious introverted functions can restrict/compress extroverted functions and extroverted functions can also restrict/compress introverted functions. But when all four functions are in ābalanceā equal compression/uncompression (restriction/unrestriction) in oneās psyche then the free flow of the whole conscious psyche (which is what I feel) manifests. Idk, this is what I think for now.
As Iām sure youāre well aware, personal growth and development doesnāt stop when we have four little sticks next to our forum names, it continues each and every day; processing/integrating our life experiences only ends when we die.
Well, youāre going to laugh at me, but I did think that after having my four functions conscious I was āsetā for good ? and then I went to see my family about family problems and then I realized that I am not done with emotional problems/personal growth ?. But yes I feel restricted (perhaps, as you say, because Iām a Ti lead and when I start feeling bad and the feelings are painful, I feel āblockedā or restricted until I figure out whatās wrong and I feel the need to āfixā it now or take the steps to fix it (I have also learned to just be comfortable with feeling the pain btw, but that is harder)). I also felt bad when I checked your profile and saw that you had flat affect (I didnāt know that you did/or that perhaps you recently got it). When I see that people have flat affect I start feeling what I did before (the emptiness and the suffering) and I get crushed that they might be feeling the same ?.
I suppose that what I would say is that it is complacency that has to be fought in order to continue development, in any form or domain. Complacency tells us, āEh, that was enough.ā The drive to become more than what we currently are or have been tells us, āI can do more. I will do more.ā I think that as long as you stay mindful of the emotional problems that arise from the past and the present, and continue to be willing to work through them, that nothing of value can be taken from you. That which is earned in the Self is kept, but earning is a matter for today, not yesterday or tomorrow.
Ah yes, I agree with all of this rondo. Thank you. I would also say, however, that chastising yourself for not being more and doing more is a bad thing. Live your life, you are human and you are allowed to make mistakes/fall from your ideals/ and fuck up things sometimes, even if youāre 80 yrs old. Itās ok, I think, as long as you learn and your intentions are good ?.
@scientiam
I can try to describe these terms from what I think it is as derived from my experience and then @auburn can confirm/deny it and give a more technical definition. By āuncompressedā I mean the free and unfettered flow of energy/information/action coming from the psyche. While ācompressedā means the restricted/clamped energy/information/action coming from the psyche. That means that since we all āuseā our four functions, itās not use but rather the functions that are conscious that we give free and independent reign to and are therefore āuncompressed" and "unrestricted". Well, it could be the case too that conscious, unrestricted introverted functions restrict extroverted functions (as it did with me) so perhaps it is better to say that conscious introverted functions can restrict/compress extroverted functions and extroverted functions can also restrict/compress introverted functions. But when all four functions are in ābalanceā equal compression/uncompression (restriction/unrestriction) in oneās psyche then the free flow of the whole conscious psyche (which is what I feel) manifests. Idk, this is what I think for now.
Thank you for your elaborations here, they are indeed very useful and help me understand the truth of these terms 'compressed' and 'uncompressed' when used in reference to the cognitive functions š
Well, youāre going to laugh at me, but I did think that after having my four functions conscious I was āsetā for good, and then I went to see my family about family problems and then I realized that I am not done with emotional problems/personal growth. But yes I feel restricted (perhaps, as you say, because Iām a Ti lead and when I start feeling bad and the feelings are painful, I feel āblockedā or restricted until I figure out whatās wrong and I feel the need to āfixā it now or take the steps to fix it (I have also learned to just be comfortable with feeling the pain btw, but that is harder)). I also felt bad when I checked your profile and saw that you had flat affect (I didnāt know that you did/or that perhaps you recently got it). When I see that people have flat affect I start feeling what I did before (the emptiness and the suffering) and I get crushed that they might be feeling the same.
No laughter here my friend, well, maybe now since we're on the same page XD; and let me explain: I think my period of stagnation started when I started to believe that perhaps because I had been through and processed so much, that things were basically "stable", but that is simply not the case. Stability is created from the work we do every day. And dealing with other people is always difficult, because we must let go of our delusions that we can or should control others' behavior, and must simply decide for ourselves what is our best path forward, having strength to carry on despite criticism or ridicule.
Edit: Realized that I neglected to mention the flat affect here. Please don't feel bad on my account š As David Goggins has said, "Scars remind you that your past is real." I will not forget my past, but I also will not let it define me. I see the signals of Flat Affect in myself as reminders of what I have been through, not as disfigurations, but as transfigurations. One thing that is very useful about working in acute crisis stabilization is that you learn how to orient yourself in an environment in which most of those around you are suffering and out of control. You learn that you can be in control, even in chaos, that your own traumas do not have to impede your decisions, or your ability to help others. And, as always, any and all traumatic events must be processed after the fact to cleanse the mind of the negative thoughts and feelings that swim about in their wake. I think most of us are stronger than we know in this regard, but we self-defeat before the battle has begun, and perseverate on all the ways the war is being lost. Voluntarily entering into our sufferings is the key; there is a world of difference between lowering yourself into a scalding hot bath because you want to soothe your muscles, and being thrown into scalding hot water against your will. As a final note, I would say that family issues are often some of the deepest and most difficult things to unravel, as we cannot choose our family, but we must navigate a path through our families, or choose the path of separation if we deem our other options untenable.
Ah yes, I agree with all of this rondo. Thank you. I would also say, however, that chastising yourself for not being more and doing more is a bad thing. Live your life, you are human and you are allowed to make mistakes/fall from your ideals/ and fuck up things sometimes, even if youāre 80 yrs old. Itās ok, I think, as long as you learn and your intentions are good.
Yes. As cheesy at it sounds (yet as good as it feels), I have been coming up with mantras for myself to write down and repeat. My most recent is: Failures are admonitions, successes are invitations: investigate your actions' origins. Failures are not reasons to self-flagellate, they are opportunities to accept new truths.
No laughter here my friend, well, maybe now since weāre on the same page XD; and let me explain: I think my period of stagnation started when I started to believe that perhaps because I had been through and processed so much, that things were basically āstableā, but that is simply not the case. Stability is created from the work we do every day. And dealing with other people is always difficult, because we must let go of our delusions that we can or should control othersā behavior, and must simply decide for ourselves what is our best path forward, having strength to carry on despite criticism or ridicule.
@rondo, yes I am realizing that āstabilityā is perhaps having the highs and lows in oneās feelings as we live day to day and put in the āworkā , as you say, to stabilize it, Ā rather than thinking we are stable when we are happy all the time or neutral (ignoring feelings). And yes, also donāt control people? thatās something I tried with my family and failed miserably (everyone is own their own path/journey and you are allowed to go your own way too friend?.
I will not forget my past, but I also will not let it define me. I see the signals of Flat Affect in myself as reminders of what I have been through, not as disfigurations, but as transfigurations
This is very good advice for all who have or have had flat affect. I agree with it completely and I think the people who have suffered with flat affect are also those in the best position to help others ātransfigureā their suffering as you are doing with you work with the mentally ill.
Voluntarily entering into our sufferings is the key; there is a world of difference between lowering yourself into a scalding hot bath because you want to soothe your muscles, and being thrown into scalding hot water against your will. As a final note, I would say that family issues are often some of the deepest and most difficult things to unravel, as we cannot choose our family, but we must navigate a path through our families, or choose the path of separation if we deem our other options untenable.
I agree. In meeting my family after a long time (which was like throwing myself in scalding hot water) I noticed I have much to grow still from the problems I have there. I realized I have to go to therapy (perhaps itās the ānormal wayā we can voluntarily enter into our sufferings, as you mention is key, but there are other ways too, like spirituality).
Yes. As cheesy at it sounds (yet as good as it feels), I have been coming up with mantras for myself to write down and repeat. My most recent is: Failures are admonitions, successes are invitations: investigate your actionsā origins. Failures are not reasons to self-flagellate, they are opportunities to accept new truths.
Itās not cheesy at all. Thoughts and words can change our perspective and mantras seem like a perfect self-therapeutic way to get through problems in the moment (when past demons arise or one can see a future crisis). Those are very good mantras you have and I think I have been doing the same thing by saying to myself to ātake it day by day ā or by saying ātrust the universe/god.ā
OMG, congratulations, @scientiam !
I think making a group of support for people who are on the journey of integrating their functions is a wonderful idea and very useful !
There can be so much struggle on the way and if you don't understand what is happening, you can easily become discouraged or scared.
I am very curious about the little wolf. What did it look like? Where did you find it? Does it represent your Se or Se and Fe together ? What aspects about it did you judge and how did you realize you shouldn't have judged them?
If you make this group, please let me know ! I am indeed not sure if I want to develop my Te and Ni or if it is the right time for it and I would like to explore this possibility more.
@bera, thank you!
I actually think that I saw you had come up with the idea for a support group ( I don't remember what post it was), but I thought it was a great idea too! I think it's time that perhaps we finally had that talk we had planned some time ago and you can ask me any questions you would like. I'm a little sick right now, but I'm sure I'll be fine by the time we talk.
Oh, yes, I did, but it was so long ago, I forgot about it. š Now I remembered I said something about this in an older thread.
I think itās time that perhaps we finally had that talk we had planned some time ago and you can ask me any questions you would like.
To be completely honest, when I saw how long the videos are, I started feeling worried about it. English is not my first language and I make more mistakes when I am speaking than when I am writing. Sometimes it's also hard for me to find the right words or I pronounce them in weird ways.
I also don't have very good communication skills in general. š They have gotten better in time but they are still not good enough in my opinion.
I can make acceptable short videos. But I am afraid I would make many mistakes if we talked for 50 minutes or so. We could maybe do a shorter one or indeed one in which I ask more questions and you talk more. š
@bera, we can do a short video then, if you are still interested (I like talking more than writing lol). If not, then I'll just try to answer your questions here ?.
To answer some questions you asked earlier: I found my little wolf by trying to describe how my aggression/feelings felt like to my wife. I thought Fe was about regulating aggression (which is what I felt in my heart). I was afraid of the big ass wolf I thought I had in me, but it turned out that it was a little wolf just trying to defend itself. In my imagination it looked kinda like the picture I have in my profile, but younger. Yes, I think Fe and Se were both tied to my little wolf, as it allowed me to not judge the animal/emotional parts of me and be open to them to manifest through me.
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