Home 2023 › Forums › Type Specific › Come see my video chat with Faeruss (now FeNi IIII, previously TiSe)
I had a lot of fun talking with @faeruss: he has a beautiful, well-ordered, geometric soul like the ancient philosophers. I decided to go more with the "flow" on this discussion, instead of making it more ordered, because it feels more natural to me and fun. I hope you guys like it, we get into a lot of talk on CT theory. I also apologize again for the unending techincal issues with Skype, this time it cut off our conversation four times during its duration.
https://youtu.be/Ow9x9Wt99lc
This is absolutely fascinating! @faeruss - I'm very glad you did this interaction video, especially with a confirmed TiSe like Scientiam. I'm quite convinced now that you're right about FeNi-- and it shows through visually from the first minute of the video. You do have that authoritative Je energy, a 'command', a settled composure and much more "creamy" and ballistic Fe gestures, etc. (Maybe this is a lesson for me in the value of interaction videos as a typing form-factor versus random questions.)
I'm only 12 minutes into the video, but am also quite enjoying the discussion itself. Since Je has a certain instrumental or pragmatic epistemic approach, the functionality of a model is part of its truth value --but the systems needn't be digested into their bones for it to be utilized instrumentally. Oppositely, for Ji the information has to converge into themselves and become part of their axiomatic structure (or its outgrowth) before it can be used as an instrument. And that structure is used monolithically through life.
Thanks for sharing, @scientiam and @faeruss!
As argued here, Big Five correlations between Ne&Se/Ni&Si/Ti&Fi/Te&Fe traits imply that they're indeed less independent as CT generally assumes. Moreover, quadrants also map on to John Verveake's four layers of consciousness: Participatory~Pe, Perspectival~Pi, Procedural~Ji, and Propositional~Je.
@faeruss You confused perspectival ('salience landscape') and participatory knowing ('what it is like'), btw. Did you watch Verveake's new course on meaning? For you don't seem to refer it in your last speculative thread.
Given the lack of engagement last time, and that Verveake had already been mentioned, I kept postponing to write an article on these layers. Yet Ji as procedural knowing adds an outside view to @auburn's insider perspective (which is already great!).
My Si seems to clear up; so, I hope to appear less speculative soon (and until then, please steelman my attempts...)
Nice conversation (the 1h40 format is a little too long for me though)! Enjoyed the part about perceptual vs propositional truths.
(Btw, @faeruss, was it rum or whisky in your Old Fashioned glass?)
@sander Thank you for your feedback. Yes, indeed, I have seen Vervaeke's latest Meaning Crises videos. I don't think I have confused the two, perhaps I can explain how I saw it: perspectival concerns yes as you say relevance realisation, but more conceptually it concerns knowing what it is like from a certain vantage point. This gets tricky and somewhat intertwined with participatory knowing, were we know by sharing a fundamental identity with, by partaking in the life of something. So, we know what it is like to be wise in the participatory sense by becoming wise. We know what it is like to see the world as wise man, in the perspectival sense, by adopting the perspective of the wise one. These two process are arguably interlinked and reinforce each other.
@septimus-chalier Thanks, Septimus. I was drinking a bit of whisky indeed.
@faeruss Thank you for replying. It confirms that we use the same definitions, while explaining why the difference is not significant for you.
For me, the difference is usually relevant, as I am so much more aware of the salience than the salience landscape. It helps me understand why Pi-leads seem so selfish, for example; they're just more self-aware.
Applying Pe to Pi gets tricky indeed, just as applying Pi to Pe; then, the difference may become confusing.
Still, the identification/the pointing/the participating comes before adopting perspective/orienting/interpreting. So, you can know what it is like to be disoriented!
I like FeNi so much better for you @faeruss ! Vultology aside (yours is difficult) - I did feel after knowing you a little while that TiSe wasn't right for your personality. We had all been arguing between NiFe and TiSe, but this new typing fits perfectly.
My attention span is 2:13 long, but I wanted to briefly comment that Faeruss provides a great example of mid brows raises that are used by betas (I don't see gammas do them as much). Midbrow raise =/= Si, though it's employed by Si as well as Fe, as we saw in Pac today.
I have some time today, so I'm giving it more of a listen.
I tend to relate to approaching an object the same way Scientiam does. I'd like to arrange the structure myself to make it meaningful and weed out the inconsistencies. I very much relate to what Jung said about interpreting paintings on the cave wall. Nobody but the artist did the work, so to the others, they are just circles and lines. I'm paraphrasing. But there remains a sense to me that I must create from the ground up to test the veracity of a thing. It has to resonant from the inside. This may be a conductor/revisor difference. Conductors pick things up as tools, employ them, and discard or modify them if don't work well. Revisors seem to hold the tool, turn it, inspect it. We could even say they - as artisans - craft the tool.
(OMG, I love when Faeruss brings out the sword gesture to indicate Pi splitting off!)
Is it true social interaction videos will bring out the extraverted functions and the solitary videos will bring out the introverted functions?
"Is it true social interaction videos will bring out the extraverted functions and the solitary videos will bring out the introverted functions?"
In my experience being in a more extroverted environment (lots of people, a party, or situations with lots of talking and interacting) usually makes me more quiet as I cannot "fight" the other extroverted energy in the room. I may try but if no one is listening to me then I just get quiet and start observing.
If I am with one other close friend or intimates on the other hand or just alone in front of the camera, I can be more myself and more expressive. Still if people don't respond to my extroverted energy (laughing or interest) I will just start observing and taking in information from around me.
I can be life of the party but I have to be pretty stressed out and without an outside stimulus to calm me down or just really happy or excited about something.
long story short. for me it seems introverted activities bring about extroversion and extroverted ones bring about a more introverted persona.
this argument/proposition subject to change upon the users further experience with these things.
@greencoyote I think you're absolutely right in the way you described it. Only time I get "extraverted" it seems is (A) I have to argue or (B) I'm with a bunch of introverts and I have to lead in some sort of way. In case (B) I can probably appear very extroverted.
@courtjester im not sure if im right or wrong. Im simply stating what applies to me personally.
But yeah
that could change at any moment as life is constantly blessing and messing with us
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