Reply To: The Fe Myth & Meta Narratives

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  • Type: SeFi
  • Development: lll-
  • Attitude: Unseelie

@faeruss pointed out the unfair positive bias in “Hero” compared to the other Myths. Using a neutral source, like a  Dictionary 

let’s see what comes up first.

1a: a male monarch of a major territorial unitespecially : one whose position is hereditary and who rules for life
b: a paramount chief
2capitalized : GOD, CHRIST… to worship the King, the Lord of hosts …— Zechariah 14:16 (Revised Standard Version)
3: one that holds a preeminent positionespecially : a chief among competitorsthe cattle kings rode up from the south— Alan Mooreheadeven if no longer king, cotton remains the chief cash crop— Howell Walker
4: the principal piece of each color in chess having the power to move ordinarily one square in any direction and to capture opposing pieces but being obliged never to enter or remain in check
5: a playing card marked with a stylized figure of a king
6: a checker that has been crowned

Alternate from
a male sovereign or monarch; a man who holds by life tenure, and usually by hereditary right, the chief authority over a country and people.
( initial capital letter ) God or Christ.
a person or thing preeminent in its class:
a king of actors.
verb (used with object)
to make a king of; cause to be or become a king; crown.
Informal . to design or make (a product) king-size:
The tobacco company is going to king its cigarettes.
verb (used without object)
to reign as king.


trick·​ster | \ ˈtrik-stər  \
Definition of trickster

: one who tricks: such as
a : a dishonest person who defrauds others by trickery
b : a person (such as a stage magician) skilled in the use of tricks and illusion
c : a cunning or deceptive character appearing in various forms in the folklore of many cultures

Alternate from
a deceiver; cheat; fraud.
a person who plays tricks.
a supernatural figure appearing in various guises and typically engaging in mischievous activities, important in the folklore and mythology of many primitive peoples and usually conceived as a culture hero.


noun (1)
he·​ro | \ ˈhir-(ˌ)ō  \
plural heroes
Definition of hero
(Entry 1 of 3)
1a: a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b: an illustrious warrior
c: a person admired for achievements and noblequalities
d: one who shows great courage
2a: the principal character in a literary or dramatic work—used specifically of a principal male character especially when contrasted with heroineA special feature was the cliff-hanger ending when hero, heroine, or both found themselves confronting a violent demise …— Ira Konigsberg—now also used of a principal character who is female… action movies with female heroes are emerging more frequently, and with increasing quality.— William Bibbiani
b: the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3plural usually heros : SUBMARINE sense 2
4: an object of extreme admiration and devotion : IDOL

Alternate from
noun, plural he·roes; for 5 also he·ros.
a person noted for courageous acts or nobility of character:
He became a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
a person who, in the opinion of others, has special achievements, abilities, or personal qualities and is regarded as a role model or ideal:
My older sister is my hero. Entrepreneurs are our modern heroes.
the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
Classical Mythology .
a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
(in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
(in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.
hero sandwich.
the bread or roll used in making a hero sandwich.


Do you see the problem here?

The other functions are neutral roles in Society, which may have positive or negative connotations – whereas “Hero” is an Idol, a principle character in a work, legendary illustrious warrior.

These connotations matter.

Mentor is a more neutral connotation, like the others. That is why it fits into the list. It holds within it the connotation of ‘shedding your self’ to become something greater for the sake of others, or to carry out a legacy.


men·​tor | \ ˈmen-ˌtȯr  , -tər\
Definition of mentor
(Entry 1 of 3)
1capitalized : a friend of Odysseus entrusted with the education of Odysseus’ son Telemachus
2a: a trusted counselor or guidea mentor who, because he is detached and disinterested, can hold up a mirror to us— P. W. Keve
b: TUTOR, COACH The student sought a mentor in chemistry.

Alternate from
mentor[men-tawr, -ter]
a wise and trusted counselor or teacher.
an influential senior sponsor or supporter.
verb (used without object)
to act as a mentor:
She spent years mentoring to junior employees.
verb (used with object)
to act as a mentor to:
The brash young executive did not wish to be mentored by anyone.


P.S. I’m not “personally offended” by positive or negative connotations. I love being a trickster 🙂   While I very much identify as my own hero and savior – and have often taken on the role of hero for others (but in a very Te-ish way, pragmatic and doing things to protect their innocence) –  my philosophy is very much from a revisor point of view. I wanted to bring my own values to life, see them embodied and enacted. It was never about being a ruler or in any kind of social ‘hierarchy’ position.

So I have no reason to moralize or to be offended by a slight imbalance here. I do agree that Je is the function that takes on responsibility for others and is run by conscience rather than a desire to enact or explore their own personal dreams & desires. This is no problem!

But as @faerie has articulated so well, so many times on both threads; everyone is a hero. Everyone does heroic things for themselves and others, in different ways. The connotation of the word is just too positive, too universal, too human. Compare it to the other myths, and then Fe starts to lose its specific character.

The way Auburn wrote the whole description is absolutely brilliant, and it was one of my favorites and very true to life. I’m not critiquing that.  I can ‘personally relate’ to parts of all the descriptions since I’m a human being, and these are human themes; while still, I can acknowledge that this isn’t “my” archetype. But in the case of Hero, we really all have our own hero story. And I strongly disagree that we’ve all adopted a Fe hero narrative because of ‘modern culture.’

The problem, to me, is that ‘hero’ is in fact equated with individuation, and ‘narrative’ is also a universal need to have an identity. Some people care more than others about having a narrative, and arguably it’s related to “Pi ego” or something like that; but it’s about identity, not Fe, or even Ni.  (If we’re going to use real examples, my father is NiFe, and he doesn’t give much of a hoot about having a personal hero narrative. I often organize his stories into a narrative of overcoming poverty & enacting the American Dream, but he is much more interested in the wider cultural narrative replete with politics and history, and doesn’t talk much about his own identity heroism at all.)

So saying “hero” “narrative” is Fe, and the rest of the people that relate to it are biased due to modern culture, just doesn’t add up.

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Animal.
  • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Animal.
  • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Animal.
  • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Animal.
  • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Animal.
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