- Type: SeFi
- Development: lll-
- Attitude: Unseelie
You almost sound like a Je-lead! But no, actually, Je-leads don’t sound like that.
Haha, this made me laugh! And ya, they definitely don’t!
Firstly I wanna say.. I can’t imagine how hard it must have been, and still is, to fight the odds that you’re constantly faced with. That sounds like a really challenging battle that would require exactly the kind of fortitude that you’ve developed. I’m reminded of @alerith who had said similar things, having gone through her own trials with health. I don’t think CT is ready for psychoanalysis atm but if it’s ok with you I’d like to try something? …In the interest of truth-seeking.
Thank you so much ❤️
And yes, let’s try it!!
Odd as it may sound, actual Je-leads seem to me to lack this level of preoccupation with Je. That is to say, they just ‘are’ without having to ‘try to be’ as much. They’re often conscientious, but out of temperament rather than out of need. Beyond the usual effort that Je takes to wield, what you describe sounds like a struggle to modulate a lower function, which is exactly what we see of your vultology. We struggle to do what is non-native to us, otherwise it wouldn’t be too much of a struggle. I wonder if that makes sense?
Yes, this makes perfect sense. For me, feeling the flow of the world is natural, and beautiful, don’t get me wrong – I call myself Animal for a reason 🙂 I love my visceral animal energy and flow with the moment, and wouldnt want it any other way! I thought Se was the most beautiful function when I first read about it, because of the immediate visceral energy. I thought I wasnt good enough to be Se lead.. I cant dance or draw; I’m too complex, too off world. Like animals.. Se on its own is so beautiful and pure. But I want to use that backdrop to channel something universal; to tap into the timeless and eternal rhythm of the world, beyond the endless nows.
So while you describe this experience as “central” to you –and perhaps it really is at this point– this centrality may be the result of who you have become, more than who you were born as. I understand this is a technical/semantic point, and it makes little difference in the end. But I wonder for example that if you hadn’t become sick, if your relationship to your relatives had been better and not evoked envy or feelings of a need to self-parent.. would you be someone else? Can we even know?What parts are central, and what defines centrality?
I actually think overall my relationship to my family is excellent. I think the things I went through as a child were an expression of my own nature. I was not abused or neglected; contrarily I had brilliant capable loving parents who were excellent role models. My brother happened to be born when I was 2.5 – which is the exact age when the sibling gets jealous – because theyre young enough to be competing for resources, but too old to take this change in stride. My reaction was a result of my nature, I think. The envy (4), angry autonomy (8) and desire to get whats mine for myself (gamma meritocracy)… but also a deep devotion to understanding myself and my nature, looking inward, and overpowering empathy which was so beautiful to experience in music. Music was cathartic and it was the place I felt most free to delve into these intense emotions I always had, and likely would have had due to my very nature, regardless of what else occurred.
Music was cathartic and also challenging. It gave me a focus, a hunt; it gave me insight to my unconscious , who I really am.. it gave me a purpose, something to build myself into.. it gave me something I could give back to the world, to inspire them and hold up the mirror of my songs, for them to look at, and find what they see fit. I was a muse , and that was my purpose among others but for me, music was a pipeline that connected my inner world to my body, and thus, connected me to others around me. It was my pipeline to Earth, the path to love, the experience of God.
I felt this way about it when I was young, before the tragedy. The autonomy stuff might have been exasperated by envy for my brother, but more than anything I just really wanted to master music and write books. I was determined to build up my talent as a masterpiece and do what I love for the rest of my life, and embody the messages that came to me through music – love, honesty, authenticity, the unconscious, spiriuality.
I also was ugly and believed if my voice and songs were beautiful enough, “he” would want me. There was a sense I had to develop my abities to be wanted on Earth- by “him” , or really anyone. Why would anyone want me around if not for my amazing gifts? What was so special about me? I wanted to be admired, adored for my music and its message. I wanted to fend off rejection.
All of this is normal teenage girl stuff, but the amount of obsessive perfectionism I had around it was extreme. I had an extreme need to be something more, to live my dreams, to give my life meaning. I don’t think this was about my family; it seems innate.
I call it “central” because it is the pattern that keeps showing up again, over and over in my life- the masochist, the martyr for the cause, the determined hunter chasing a vision, shedding blood, sweat and tears, doing anything it takes to bring that passion to life. This is my pattern – it’s how I respond to tragedy, opportunity, and choice- in every scenario – since I was little. I hone in on a sense of purpose and it sets the stage for my personal mythology in which I am the protagonist warrior, turning dust to gold, all for the sake of fulfilling a vision.
Me either. It took me a while to learn what role nurture plays in the equation, since I began with the assumption that nature was most of it. I think we have a need to know “who I am”, and this is almost always asked as a static question. But we’re all a kind of process; a work in progress. One part hardware, one part software. We can alter parts of us.
Yes, I believe who we are is a spectrum of potential. Our spectrum is specific to us individually, but which way we choose to mold that potential is up to us. In this sense, character is not the hand youre dealt, but how you play that hand. You only get one hand, but many ways you might choose to play it.
My sense of you is that you’ve done a lot of self-work. But even that has implications to it, doesn’t it? Self-work doesn’t need to be done, if one is being their most natural self. Almost all of the 3-4 function conscious individuals we’ve seen have had careers or lives defined by working on their weaknesses. Patching up their Achille’s heels. And they’re almost all “paradoxes” in the sense that they have conflicting traits.
Hmm, I think it’s natural for people to do self work. In order for me to be my most natural self, I have to chase, hunt and strive- and dance with the rhythm of the world. The question is, what muse do I want to chase, and how deeply will it satisfy me? In order to dance with the rhythm of such a muse, I have to become a better dancer. So really.. all of this is very natural, all the way down to my hungry animal appetite. I am hungry for will, for fight, for fire and rising and victory. I am hungry to conquer my prey, to reach the stars, to forge the version of me that can do this. Because I feel the flow of the world and that is how I move with it in the most honest way possible. To do any less, would be unnatural, ignoring the rhythm, refusing to dance.
It’s as though some parts of one function override parts of another, and the specific mix of which parts override which parts is subject to their personal journey. So I realize you don’t “fit” the Pe or Se description to the letter, but I wouldn’t worry so much about that because I think it’s entirely expected for a 3 function conscious person to go against parts of their own energy.
It’s so funny you say this because I actually feel like I’m deeper immersed in my own energy. I embody rawness, animalism, sexuality, rawr, tigress, Kali… I express that which is most deep and central to Se. While other Se users dress it in sassy masks (or this is how it feels to me), I go right down to the animal, bare and naked. I am the trickster, the aphrodisiac, the brutal animal goddess. My sexuality is deeply ingrained, accepted and worn as art. I epitomize the huntress, the hunger, the chase.. I was even constructing a name based on these. Animal is the base part of us, yet Anima is life force, breath. I am hunter and vitality in one. How many Se leads have tapped so deeply into their myth? How many can capture and encapsulate it as such? How many, in their home lives, are so carnal it’s spiritual?
Maybe I am less so since I ascribe meaning to things; maybe its more carnal to live without meaning. But still, I bite and hiss and meow at my husband, and indulge myself with him at my leisure. I celebrate our beauty and life in a visceral way.
I feel like the J functions have helped illuminate whats real and central about the Se, in a symbolic way, even if I spend less time doing Se by itself. Ive uncovered its symbolic resonance in ways that other Se users might do, but not realize they do it. I discovered my archetypal role, if only to symbolize it in my work.
As the model currently stands, it would suggest that you are modulating Te highly, which happens when a person has a need for a function – since need is what most often catalyzes the growth. We’re still investigating how early these needs can emerge, but so far it seems possible for children to rely on a non-primary function even before age ~5, which are the formative years of personality. There’s some literature that suggests the first ~5 years of life as crucial to defining how the personality is for the rest of a person’s life. So I do wonder if that may be a missing piece to this possible. Perhaps very early modulation of lower functions causes a kind of permanent hybrid personality. I know @teatimementioned feeling she has always had Si. Perhaps we can make a thread or two more closely examining the first 5 years of life, and see what patterns we find?
Yes I would be really curious to do this. It seems like I was born with both somehow 😀 or something close.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Animal.