Reply To: Ti and the "Void Myth" – True or False?

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Chiron
Participant
  • Type: TiNe
  • Development: ll-l
  • Attitude: Adaptive

@animal – Sorry it’s taken me a while to respond here.. had a health crisis and other irl things to address lately :/ The good news is I’ve had more time to simmer on this topic, and have some thoughts to share!

I’m assuming Alerith is some 5-9 or 9-5 combo, but correct me if I’m wrong.

I’ve tested out as 549 and 541, but more recently as 593. I think life finally tempered me to the point where I lost my 4ish idealism 😛 You’re right on the nose with 5 and 9 for me tho, I’ve seen a lot of both those patterns in myself.

Following with @ivory ‘s ideas above – perhaps Trent Reznor, @thanatesque and @spirit_of_the_gael – NiTe’s – are touching more on life vs. death, whereas @alerith – who is TiNe – is touching more on ‘void.’ What do you guys think? How would you interpret the difference?

It’s so interesting you mention Trent Reznor! He was a mad crush of mine back in my late teens 😀 <3

The way Te/Fi tends to reveal the ‘dark’ truths of our humanity which are often rejected in the name of social norms and ‘decency’ has always been so attractive to me. It seems like the difference between this kind of expression and my expression as a TiNe mainly stems from the compass functions – being that the compass (Ji) is what ‘points us to the truth’. To Ti, the fundamental truth is that of negation, especially negation of that which is *felt* as meaningful in the human experience. There is an intrinsic dissociation from the emotional register with Ti, which leads to a sort of disembodiment, an ‘outsider perspective’. I’ve thought lately that the ideation of the void and experience of it is really an experience of this dissociation, and of an acknowledgement of the lack of that which is humanly relevant in the reality outside of our perception. Contrary to Ti, Fi’s fundamental truth is the reality of the human experience in all of its raw nuance. And I think you’re right, Life vs Death is the locus at the core of the ethical question, and I believe the deepest driving factor which generates emotional response. What I see in manifestations like Reznor’s music video and thanatesque and spirit_of_the_gael’s collages are direct expressions of Fi’s inevitable dilemmas as an ethical function. It’s more about the tragedy of being, the paradox of life and suffering, of loss, and perhaps especially the truth of amorality/human nature beyond the social expectations than it is about nonexistence and void. There is an acknowledgement of death and decay, but not necessarily *void*. My collages seem abiotic compared to these other works, which is exactly the difference I’d expect between Ti and Fi.

On top of the inverse effect of the different compass functions, I do see the signature of the differences between Se/Ni and Ne/Si as well. The NiTe artworks seem very physical, visceral. There is emphasis given to the experience of the body, be it pain, movement or strong emotion. There is something literal and direct about the imagery, even in the more abstract symbols spirit_of_the_gael uses. Contrast this to my collages in which bodies are used like a metaphor, they are kind of static characters instead of representations of the literal or emotional human experience, and emphasis is given to an overall impression of *essence* rather than a pointed symbolic meaning.

This is a bit of a tangent from the original question, but a thought occurred to me while contemplating this thread. I think Ti and Ni can both manifest a profound state of peace, ‘Zen’ you could call it, but in different ways and coming from different places. This may well relate to the work of Dario Nardi on mapping the neurology of the functions. He found that Ni-leads manifest a synchronized brain state associated with being alert and calm or performing an activity of creative expertise. What’s especially interesting is that this pattern also shows up when the Ni user is tackling an unfamiliar problem or envisioning the future. This seems to suggest to me that Ni, as an intuitive function, centers in a sense of holistic association, where all factors/elements are ‘known’ and comprehended relative to each other. I imagine the psychological experience would be one of being at the center of the causality and flow of things, therefore able to predict what will happen next. This would indeed result in a sense of competence and security.

Now with Ti, the primary neurological pattern is a circuit in the frontal and prefrontal cortex associated with linear solution derivation, categorization and factual recall. It is my thought that a sense of security is manifest with Ti when it seems that the world has been conceptualized into a categorical set/system/framework. Because of the taxonomic nature of this conceptualization, the Ti user would have the experience of being outside of the system – since their world is a sort of model built of definitions. This is the sense of security, looking from the outside-in and being dissociated from the causality and flow of things, therefore not subject to it.

So basically Ni gains a sense of control and security, thus peace, from looking out at the world from the center, while Ti gains that sense of competence from looking in at the world from the outside.

I dunno if any of that makes sense? 😮

Anyway, this post has gone on! To answer, briefly, the question from your OP, I do relate to the myth of the void. As mentioned though, I’ve come to be conscious of the fact lately that it’s not literally ‘void’ that I’m drawn to, but reality beyond subjective experience. I think Ti wants to get as close to an objective concept of reality as possible, and I’ve sensed the factual, concrete existence of the world as a stillness/emptiness. But in truth this stillness isn’t so much literal as it is a sense of a lack of emotional/psychological projection into the environment. At least that’s how I’ve come to see it thus far..

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