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Animal
Participant
  • Type: SeFi
  • Development: lll-
  • Attitude: Unseelie

@Bera

I will not explain it in a passionate, heartfelt way, but I don’t think everything I do or everything everybody does is meaningless, hence the only way to live life is to enjoy every moment to the fullest !  There are valuable things we can (and must !) do because this is our duty as long as we have the possibility to do them !

When I say “beyond right and wrong” I’m not saying that I lack a sense of meaning.  My sense of purpose has always been strong, but it’s my own.  And it’s not about “right and wrong.”  It’s more about being true to myself, and being honest about what is real.  The patterns that I see in the cosmos – I may not be able to explain them down to the nuance and I may not fully understand them, but they are real. My life’s purpose is to express this experience accurately, to be a vessel through which the very life-force may emerge.

Typology is a language used to discuss those patterns.  So is the system of symbols that I created for my novel.  So I am quite intense about getting those premises right.  I don’t care about ‘this word and that word’ but rather, I strive to feel the underlying pulse beneath the behaviors.  I always knew that coming up with a more tangible system (which someone like @Ivory has much more hope of accomplishing than I do) would be the key to expressing it to others.  I use my Se magnetism and leadership to draw the crowd so we would continue an ongoing realistic dialogue to refine our understanding and also have potential to be systemized, rather than vaguely described as vibes and underlying tempos.  I’ll never get credit for a final product; I’ll just get hate groups against me for disagreeing with people’s typings – but I’ll be a step on the ladder for someone else to finish the job. And for once I’m ok with that because the need to develop this language feels cosmically important to me.  And while we’re at it, let’s not even get into the sacrifices I have made to sing through my whisper, to finish my novel (editing for 7 years!), to survive this ongoing illness.  My determination to live out my purpose is a force of nature unto itself.

So I am definitely not a nihilist, but my ethics aren’t about ‘right and wrong’ per se. It’s about tapping into the flow and communicating it, without ethical judgment for or against any aspect of it – just “is what it is.” To be a vessel through which the cosmos emerges, I must allow some chaos, since this is part of reality.  I would not obstruct that process with ethical judgments. The ethical judgments about what SHOULD emerge, are what ruin communication of the truth.

I guess this is why I consider myself Ni ego, even though I often think Se ego is better. But I also don’t care about momentary indulgences – in fact, the simplest way to say this is that it BORES me. It’s not IMMERSIVE and sensually emotionally stimulating.  I am not capable of running away from my emotions and any attempt to do so would be BORING because I’d be split in two, and could not get immersed in anything.  Maybe some people (like gut types in enneagram, 3s who are generally more athletic etc) are more about the sensual and physical momentary stimulation, and running away from what’s inside them – but as a four, I need to feel my emotions saturating me. I love working out with headphones – I need the music to mirror my insides and match the tempo of my rage. If there weren’t headphones I would be so bored working out, but with the emotional intense music tapping into my raw soul, that physical stimulation drives the sentiment through me to the core and I experience something cathartic as I let any boundaries dissolve into this fury. Afterwards, I am reborn.

I relate to Kylo Ren. The flow comes from the depth of emotion for him. He’s a brute rager when he’s alone but when he’s in love and running on passion, he is smooth as the wind.  He does not belong to any side.  (The particular way this manifests for him is 9-fix, as well, but that’s a story for another day.)  He is guided by a need to dig deep into his own dark emotions as well as the light – which draws him away both from the light and the dark side.  He is son of the light (Leia) and grandson of the dark (Vader), and his very genes are written to embrace and express all of himself, never to be loyal to a “side” – but only to his heart. I believe he is also a four. The actor is probably NiFe 6w5 but he plays the character in a more chaotic, immediate Se way.  It’s arguable the character is Ni lead too and the Se is more of a shadow, but either way it’s relatable to me.

If I were to take on a physical art, it would be martial arts – which would be immersive (for me personally) because it requires such intense concentration and it really forces you into the zone – and in the end it has meaning. It harkens back to a more civilized time (in my opinion), it draws on ‘the force’ as we know it, rather than just being a coward shooting a gun and not having to even look at your victim’s face… etc.  It’s more humane if one has to kill at all.  But martial arts is more about avoiding killing, just mastering the moves so you can be a protector.  It’s also beautiful like a dance, and through that dance I feel like I could perform something meaningful, the flow of my very soul.  And this particular dance is timeless; not dependent on what country you live in or what era you were born in. Martial arts tap into something universal. Of course I’m not talking about one specific art or the other; but the mastery of these moves, and the need for a protector who taps into the flow and respects life. It’s universal and timeless, therefore meaningful.

I have extreme ethics concerning the flow itself, the force, the cosmos, and how I choose to  tap into it.  I don’t watch tv or do other things people consider “stimulating” because I feel it clogs the mind and clouds one’s ability to be in touch with their true nature.  I have felt this way since I was a YOUNG CHILD.  Back then, not watching tv was an impulse because my entire body and being reacted to the static and the false picture.  My entire body cringes at video games, people pouring so much of their personal energy and character into someone else’s world.  I don’t want to waste one of my characters and her development on someone else’s video game with all its arbitrary constraints – I want to allow her to come to life as a creature aligned with nature, pure and true, into a book.  Typology is a language that helps me understand different types of characters on a gut level, and tap more deeply into their energy when my own would otherwise block that relationship.

So you see I am very specific about ethics regarding my ‘state of mind,’ and always was, even before Fi developed. But the ethics are about how to embrace that which is genuinely personal and universal, and avoid being tainted by ethical do’s and dont’s that are incidental.  This, to me, is purity.  And in my opinion it’s very Se-Ni, a type of purity that Fi and Te don’t touch. Especially because I FELT this in my gut, and I practiced it before I even understood why.  As for you Bera – you are SeFi with A LOT of superego. 2w1 in the lead, and heavy super-ego wings on your fixes. So it makes sense that you would want a solid system of right and wrong by which to hold yourself accountable. (I don’t want to reduce you to that, but that’s the gist; you can add nuance if you like.) Whereas for me as a four with low superego, it’s more about reaching the line to 1 through inner purity and being ‘true to myself’ which is much more layered than it might sound, since ‘true to myself’ means true to my humanity, and understanding the meaning of human nature itself. But for me, in order to do that, I welcome a great deal of the chaos factor, to find what is really me, really human, really real, really cosmic, really universal. Like Kylo Ren, I don’t care if I am dark or light, as long as I am a vessel through which the genuine life force emerges.  However, unlike him, the convictions I do have are unbreakable, and I will defend them to the death.  So in his position, I am not sure I would have “joined the dark side.” I would have gone rogue or started my own army for my cause, not for Darth This or that.  That’s the 8 fix.

Getting back to topic.. it simply is not immersive to do something that is meaningless to oneself. The need for “random stimulation” is more of a need to distract oneself from one’s suffering, rage or anxiety, which is a mechanism in some (not all) 3s, 7s, 8s, 9s etc… but there are many Se lead 4s and 5s popping up among celebs, and they certainly do not share this need to distract themselves from their inner mind — instead they use the Se to create something that mirrors their inner mind and/or reflects their inner emotions – which creates a (sometimes unfortunate) separation from the physical world, and even their own body. That’s why I don’t think physical need, or even escapism, is paramount for Se, but rather IMMERSION.  One can be immersed in physical, mental, or emotional stimulation, but a Se type would aim to create an aesthetic environment which is conducive to this experience, rather than just ignore the physical environment, because if there are distracting stimuli in the physical environment, then they won’t be immersed. Auburn covered these dynamics perfectly – immersion in the top two segments, and the physical environment in the ergonomics and aesthetics segment.  The part that I was uneasy about was ‘restlessness’ because it assumed someone WANTS to be distracted from what’s inside them and run away to some pointless venture as opposed to, say, exploring the anger or emotion in full force, and also that the delinquency and addiction sections, while accurate, might benefit from reminding the reader that it’s really about the absolute immersion, not the physical or substance aspect itself, even though those are common manifestations. But he basically said that I think.

Anyway to sum this up, I’d say there’s a sense that the will of the world is expressing itself through me, rather than saying I’m beholden to ethics.  The will of the world has its own ethics, its own pulse, its own life – and that is the force which guides me. In this sense, Socionics is right to call Se “Force” – but it’s about being attuned with the world’s rhythm moment to moment, as Auburn described so brilliantly. And when you’re a Se athlete, musician, or even writer – you tap into that rhythm and discipline yourself to express it with increasing flow and nuance.  When the lack of talent gets in the way, then you can’t really get into the flow. But once the art is mastered through discipline, then the flow runs through you, and that flow itself, guides you.

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