Dominant Function as Undervalued

Home Forums Cognitive Functions Dominant Function as Undervalued

This topic contains 23 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  EpicKalypze 1 week, 2 days ago.

  • Elisa Day
    Participant
    • Type: FiNe
    • Development: ll--
    • F Attitude: Seelie

    @bera I think my main beef is with the terms “conscious” and “valued” and how they are being used here, but I think I may have it straightened out. Jung says our dominant function is always conscious and our inferior cannot become conscious.

    Socionics says our first and second functions are valued, conscious, and represent our ego which is how we see ourselves. Our superego functions are also conscious, but they are not valued, and it represents how others tend to perceive us until they get to know us well. The ID is strong but unconscious and unvalued. This would be the Jungian shadow.

    CT seems to work entirely differently and I’m more interested in cracking the code than talking about emotions and feelings right now. My apologies for not answering your guys’ questions, but I thought about it all day and couldn’t find a satisfactory way to word what I was thinking. How I perceive myself may have nothing to do with how I actually am anyway.

    Bera
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: l---
    • F Attitude: Seelie

    @Elisa Day – what you said is very interesting, I didn’t know.

    From what I understood, CT says that :

    • the first function is almost always conscious (except for unusual situations – I’m not sure what this means);
    • any other functions can also be developed and become conscious.

    I don’t really know how this works, what you have to do to develop them (and this is actually the most relevant thing :)) ). I’m not sure if it was explained anywhere but I will try some experimental approaches with Ni and Te. 🙂 This is basically why I joined this forum, I wanted to develop functions. :))

     

     

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  Bera.
    EpicKalypze
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: ll-l
    • F Attitude: Directive

    I think this is absolutely essential and explains everything.

    I have a lot to say on this topic, because I’m SeFi with Ni ego, and my father is NiFe with Se ego.  His Se is developed. My Ni is versatile, and shows up a little, but not yet fully conscious.

    The basic implication is that he values being a realist, and doesn’t care about that which isn’t evident to the senses; yet he picks up all the underlying trends in the world and can articulate them with tremendous depth.
    I value spirituality, cosmic rhythm and the underlying trends in the world, but I pick them up kinetically and experientially, by being part of movements (whether it be online or irl) and extrapolating trends correctly from the patterns that occur thereof.

    I learn kinetically, by being ‘immersed’ in the rhythm of the world, he learns more through observation and collecting information. At the same time, both of us equally value information that we experience with our own eyes. For instance he is not the type to get caught up on academic bullshit that he hasn’t experienced himself; he always sees trends as they apply to reality that he has personally experienced.

    For Se/Ni, there’s a sense of ‘as above, so below.’  What occurs here, is a pattern; and that same pattern occurs ‘out there’ – in another culture, another species, another dimension etc, ad nauseum. My father has more nuance in breaking down the trends whereas I have more nuance in being a vessel through which they emerge – representing them moment to moment through clothes, music, anecdotal stories like fiction writing and characters; “showing” not  telling.  My father can “tell you” how it works with tremendous nuance, and I can show you with tremendous nuance.  Yet he values doing & producing & creating, and I value the observation and contemplation of underlying trends, and applying them in a more cosmic/spiritual way.

    @animal This is almost like a personal deja vu. I really resonate with a lot of your above, especially what I highlighted. Even this Ego-Mind-Realm concept feels like an underlying trend. It just felt like something more along the lines of free-will that had to fit somewhere this new wave of objective human nature. In a dualistic way this is like the little bit of liberalism that naturally fit into the majority of this determinism.

    Believing that my roommate NiFe-Se; I have to say this guy is diligently knowledgeable in so many matters of indulgences. For him there is a fine tune way to live life. For me it’s like I most discover the most unifying essential truth before death. I would not follow his path because well it’s a path of luxury, money, women, and statics which I think so many others have already done before; plus it would be digressive of my development to becoming my deepest and true-ist self. He would not follow my path because purifying intentions as to why and how you go about something is too vague for his patients; and he’s not interested in becoming something that citizens of tomorrow’s era may decide to one day embody: such as prioritizing passive income and decentralized currency OVER active income and centralized currency; having legally customized marriages with a high degree varieties; acting as if death and life are one in the same; focusing on the mastery of cognitive attributes over trade skills.

    I tend to understandingly observe something, striving to reach it’s most deepest sensational layer. Once I feel I have it’s energetic signature I will reserve engineer it to get a mirrored response from others. Example 1: I really like to fuck with free AI in the most incognito way possible. Example 2: I outline my ideas for video game concepts: The first was about Pick Up Artistry where your playable character complements, insults, touches, lies, empathizes, and discloses actual truths all in the span of 5 seconds after saying “Ah you” to a girl on the street.  I guess that’s how I would describe “value the observation and contemplation of underlying trends, and applying them in a more cosmic/spiritual way“.

     

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 5 days ago by  EpicKalypze.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 5 days ago by  EpicKalypze.
    EpicKalypze
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: ll-l
    • F Attitude: Directive

    @epickalypze – interesting ! I do feel like an explorer of the Fi realm. More than an explorer of the world, generally. SeFi brain with an Fi mind, yes, that certainly feels right.

    @bera – Thank you, I hope this perspective serve you well!

    I don’t really know how this works, what you have to do to develop them (and this is actually the most relevant thing :)) ). I’m not sure if it was explained anywhere but I will try some experimental approaches with Ni and Te.   This is basically why I joined this forum, I wanted to develop functions. :))

    Be careful daring

    • You may not comeback to be the same as what those closest to remember you to be.
    • There could still be plenty of growth to be had even as a l—.
    • So long as you get results that are better for you than an llll that should be all that manners
    • I see l— as a force of concentrated purity.
    • As an SeJi ll-l there has been many times where I wish I could just do something without thinking about it to oblivion
    • SeJi l— are some of the most lively people in the world and SeJi ll-l will rarely have it and mostly seem to fake it.
    • I find myself trying be like a SeJi l— every now and again for sake of inner freedom, yet if I tried to explain the process to a SeJi l— it could just be weirdist shit they ever heard of.

    Yet it is up to you. So for your careful consideration here are some pages below.

    8 Development Levels

    Self-Improvement and Self-Mastery

    Bera
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: l---
    • F Attitude: Seelie

    @epickalypze – thank you ! I never thought about it like that. I was just thinking – so many functions, let’s develop them all !!! (what does this button do? :)) )

    You are right though. I am functioning pretty well. I get along with most people and I am almost always in a good mood. People at work appreciate me. I have a good relationship with my parents and my friends.

    My only issues are that I am working too much and that I feel I could be doing more awesome things with my time. Sometimes I feel that I could really make a difference in the world and not just over work for a company. Also, I feel more and more drawn to the idea to build my own business and I’m not sure I could organize well enough with my I— development level. Maybe more Te would help…but would a person with Te completely developed still be me?

    This is why I started to lean more towards Ni. I feel that with Ni developed, I would just become a more sophisticated version of myself. Not like…someone completely different, as I feel with Te.

    But then again, the idea of having a complex and well thought out world view also doesn’t feel completely right to me. How can I know that world view is right and not pure make believe?? Right now I am open to many ideas but if I had a developed world view, maybe I would simply exclude a chunk of them that wouldn’t match it, right? Is this really…profitable for myself? :))

    I mean, I am in a point in which if I started handling my work issues better, my life would be pretty cool. Maybe it would be wiser to focus on work and how to develop better skills there without specifically thinking so much about developing functions.

    I resonate with the last paragraph of the second article when I think about Te – it still feels as if Te wasn’t truly me, but I also started to genuinely enjoy some Te activities. Friday I had a meeting with two lawyers we are working with and every time we meet we are all very friendly and have this wonderful understanding and flow. It was the same this time…and at some point I just ran out the meeting room to my office and bring my dated notebook to take notes in it and I got very excited about the beautiful red covers and showed them the lawyers the red covers and we all got super excited about notebooks with red covers. :)) Last year I would have rolled my eyes at this scene but now I like to have everything better organized. (well, one reason could be that I am starting to have more meetings and couldn’t keep track of them without a notebook and that for some reason I don’t like apps that do the same thing, they don’t feel like the real deal to me :))) ).

    I noticed @ShelleyLorraine also loves dated notebooks (planners or what is the right word ? 🙂 ) and organizing activities in them, maybe this is because of Pe & Te working together ? By the way, I loved your ideas on how to organize your activities, Shelley, I think I will copy some of them. <3

    I can’t @ her. Why can’t I? :)) Oh, well.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    Bera
    Participant
    • Type: SeFi
    • Development: l---
    • F Attitude: Seelie

    Oh, this reminded me of a song :

     

    🙂

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Bera.
    EpicKalypze
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: ll-l
    • F Attitude: Directive

    @bera – Love your reply… in good way it reminds me of how all over the place I can be myself.

    Without further ado its time for good old Ti nitpicking😁

    Ni- finished

    You mentioned Models and sophistication with use of Ni. I think Reviser might use Ni differently than Conductors. Conductors JePi and PiJe seem to have complex models with Ni and Si. JePi(s) seem to move people in and out their model. PiJe(s) seem to have it there as support.  For myself as a Reviser Ni user I seem to keep moving from one model to another even combining a little bit of this with little bit of that. I may write something out that is very Ni heavy and than have someone debunk some aspects about it. Once they debunk it… the only thing I see is how to rephrase it in order to accommodate each perceived error EVEN better yet; find out what general sense of bais the debunker is coming from and rephrase it in order to make so that they are wrong if I am wrong. In a way Reviser – Pi feels like aikido or jiu jitsu… to me at least. Lastly it comes as a accidental spontaneous kind of sophistication.

    Your wondering about weather you will be still be in the real world… is something I might be able to learn from an SeJi i— as oppose to giving likely false advise toward(not that you asked). As for myself either I am at a level of reality that has surpass the physical, cultural, and social or I am totally nuts. To make things even more confusing I may go back and forth through these extremes in order to arrive at a reality surpass the concept of “I” and stuff-😅🙄🤔  And now I’m sure you kind of get the point so be careful.

    One more thing Conductor – Ni may stick to a set way of doing something; where as Reviser might offer a semi-set-way and make slight alterations each time.

    Te – unfinished – please don’t read!!!

    I wonder what I could have you try out when it comes to pushing your Te buttons. However, I will admit I am having a confusing time with positioning Te in relation to myself simply as a SeTi-Xx lxxx. Te; along with the behaviors, motives, and natural gifts associated with enneagram number ONE. Te and ONE seem to me to be very similar and I wouldn’t be surprised if I wasn’t the only one who thought so. Firstly, I take the side of blaming parental/environmental nurture for enneagram, ego fixation, and development (Mind). Secondly, I take the side of blaming genetic nature for the “order of ones cognitive functions” (Brain). I once had mini addiction to Ben Sharpio’s political videos. During which I found a lot of his qualities show up in myself as I handled whatever I perceived to be unfairness. After seeing that Ben was judged to be TeNi-Se (at one point on this website) it became even harder to separate Extroverted Thinking from Enneagram One’s mythology. In short: I suspect my relations to ONE because as child I perceived the rules and disciplines offered by my single parent to be unfair in comparison to what was offered to my peers; indeed it could have been worst, yet that was what I perceived at as a child and that was what partially made up who I am as an adult. To make things more complected…. to be cont.

    —————————————————————————————–

     

    footnotes

    Critical Parent: Here where things get asymmetrical. I feel like I need to be very careful about how I go about what I’d like to say here. I will start with Critical Parent. This involves Socionics something I suck at; don’t want get into; and don’t recommend new comers look into until they have gotten very familiar with CT, which seems to much more digestible for me at least. If anyone were to ask me question about it… well… awkward! Now Te is suppose to be my Critical Parent. My eight cognitive function order stack is as follows; Se, Ti, Fe, Ni, Si, Te, Fi, Ne.  Functions 5, 6, 7, and 8 it is the area of what others call of shadow, unconscious, inactive, or low emission. I might call the 6th function: shadow, unconscious, active, and high emission. As you can see Te for me is in place number 6. How it seems to show up? Good question. In a crap way of describing… it is suppose to show up in the middle of my conscious manipulation of my first four functions doing Te like things such as: linguistics, error checking, and alignings all by it self. Although I am not completely sure it is there I sometimes feel that it must be doing something.

     

     

    Tea
    Participant
    • Type: NeFi
    • Development: l--l
    • F Attitude: Seelie

    Epic, I think you’ve made an important distinction between conductors and revisors. It’s said that Ne looks at many theories while Ni sticks to one and continues to doubt it. But I think we can apply that to Pe v Pi as well.

    I very much resonate with your approach. I take the important principles from theories and shape mine. I think I would react the same under criticism, not scraping the whole thing entirely but repositioning some of the architecture. For me (Ne) that generally involves making a finer distinction.

    I can see when SeTi are choosing the most promising course because something has to be done. This is when you see the mid brow raise I was talking about with Tobes. He said he uses it when he’s about to BS, but I think it’s more than that. It’s also abut rejecting a competing line of information in the absence of absolute certainty, and sometimes that’s out of sheer need.

    EpicKalypze
    Participant
    • Type: SeTi
    • Development: ll-l
    • F Attitude: Directive

    @Tea, I must say it is comforting to read about experience of “architectural flexibility” from another PeJi l–l.

    I had read that last segment, about SeTi, a few time more than the ones above. All of that is fairly accurate. I don’t know if I can speak for most SeTi; I like choosing the singular course that seems to be hidden from what’s within plane view; I have this hunger to get the edge and think from in early adaptive perspective. Example: NiFe-Se says “yeah we can totally profit from a bitcoin miner” SeTi-Ni “Bro all the big corporate white collars have regular bitcoin under control. So we’d have to think about where cryptocurrency is trending next; then we must foresee the initial cracks that only the small guys can fit through in order to make real a profit.”

    Se and options: I’ll see one way to do something. Try it. Then at that initial motion of starting one or two more alterations of the overall action comes into visualization. In a nutshell options may come to us in a serial motion of events.

    Need for absolute certainty: I get where coming from. Less sure about this than anything else. 1: It might not need to be said, but this need sounds like Se or Si with little to no preference for Ni or Ne respectively. 2: Sounds like Enneagram 8, which I wouldn’t be surprised if they always had little preference for N. 3: It wasn’t to I got to my late 20s did I have the “bottom line” plus “walk with no talk” as backup weapon for almost any scenario among envy driven passerbys and wannabes. In a nutshell 😶😐 IDK… IDK why I even referenced it… IDK

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by  EpicKalypze.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by  EpicKalypze.
Viewing 9 posts - 16 through 24 (of 24 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.