As the website says, the articles (particularly the behavioral profiles) found here are subject to revision if evidence accumulates to outweigh the statistical correlations currently proposed. An exception or two are to be expected, given the nature of behavioral descriptions, but if the psychology of a visual group does not match the profile, the profiles will be amended accordingly, on a continual basis.
This thread will be for documenting these changes as we refine our understanding of Types as an objective phenomenon. This OP will also be updated with a list of pending changes, and items will be removed once the changes are complete.
Know, Pending Corrections:
- Ti Profile: General Void Stuff // Clarity is needed in this department. Throughout the profile there are references to existential challenges that a reductionist Ti can pose, leading to an eventual nihilism. However, this appears to only be applicable under stress, and/or if the myth of Alin has gotten hold of someone. Please note that the myth of Alin will remain the same until further notice, as it is not a necessary feature of a Ti-lead to experience the function’s myth. Just as not all Fi-leads are fairies, and not all Se-leads are tricksters, not all Ti-leads are zen monks but the myth still appears properly articulated to me insofar as it applies to some Ti personalities when gripped by this state.
- Se Profile: Edginess & Stunts // Was modified, in favor of “Vitality & Volition” which better encapsulates this energy. Edginess and stunts was originally a trend extracted from an evaluation of (extreme) sports athletes (i.e. Tony Hawk, Bam Margera, Triple H, Paul Rodriguez, etc). Not only is this far too niche a group to describe the general Se user, but the motivation behind these daring activities appears to be an experience of being ‘alive’ and having strong ‘will’ or animating force.
- Ti Profile: Lack of Presence // Was removed, as it appears a hybrid quality of Ti+Ne and falls into the “ephemeral” quality of alpha reviser types.
If you have suggestions for how revisions on this evolving list may be executed, including your own suggested phrasing of them, feel free to post your thoughts in this thread.
Submitting Revision Requests:
If you have requests for revisions not listed above, you can also present your ideas in this thread. As the profiles are written and also modified based on statistical trends, please have at least a few tangible celebrity/public examples of your proposed changes, including a short write-up of your corrections, and I will be happy to review them. Thank you.
Updates made to the Se Profile:
Se: Vitality & Volition
Se is also characterized by a sense of volition, as their linearity of focus quickly translates into a clarity of desire. There’s an implicit knowledge of what is wanted and, as a Pe function, a craving for its attainment. The Se type will be a go-getter; motivated to gather what it wants in a literal sense. Se will leverage the environment to work for them, being opportunistic and making the best of what they got. And the quest for this attainment will carry a delicious competitiveness, giving Se users an added layer of vitality, but also of a self-assertion in reality. The Se user occupies the place where they stand, making their will known by their very composure. Then, as they lock onto their target, they inadvertently create adversity as opposite wills may always exist and chase after the same or competing resources. This only greater fuels their thirst for stimulation and arousal, as they get immersed in the hunt. The challenge of going after their pursuits will be part of the very flow they so delight in navigating.
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Note about Se vs Je
I have had my reservations about including an aspect like this in the Se profile, the way it exists in Socionics, because I find there is room for conflation with Je. But the distinction, I found, exists in that Se’s volition arises from the pursuit to gather (Pe) – and to do so as a source of stimulation. To “chase” with vigor and vitality. This is different than the “structure and control” aspects of Je. Se is “go for the prize” while Je is “establish a hierarchy/authority.”
In this way, Se’s traits can be properly understood as emerging from Pe which does have a ‘drive to attain’ (as a Scout) so there is a consumptive vector towards the object. But with Ne this chasing-after-hypotheticals doesn’t manifest the way chasing-after-actualities does in Se.
Still for Se it’s out of stimulation and flow, so it’s more akin to how a wolf/dog likes to chase things. And to continue using the wolf analogy, the Je would be present in how wolves might like to organize the pack into a hierarchy. But the two instincts are different.
Let me know how this sounds to you guys, and if it helps improve the Se profile into greater alignment with psychology.AnimalParticipant
- Type: SeFi
- Development: lll-
- F Attitude: Unseelie
Absolutely perfect. If I had seen this in the original article, I would have typed myself as Se straight away. This is stellar. Of course, I have developed Je, so I was also worried about mistaking them for each other — but the distinction you made feels spot on to me. I don’t sense the same ‘hunter in the flow’ drive with Ne-Je or Je-Ne. I am delighted by this and love the description 🙂
I’m not deep into astrology, but I identify somewhat with the Sagittarius ‘hunter shooting an arrow’ aspects, even though it’s not my sign. Sagittarius, as I understand it, is considered impulsive and momentary – but also a hunter. As you said, it’s about whether it’s motivated by energy and desire (Pe) or structure (Je).
@animal – I’m glad it resonates, and hope this will also make it better resonate with our Se users yet to join.
I find it interesting looking at how this also subtly changes the profile as a whole. I feel the Se Profile is a lot more psychologized now, revealing Se’s interiority and motivational aspects, not just the end outcomes.
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